Broncos Gameday Thread
What are the Raiders playing for today? Pride, clarity, a sign, a higher draft pick,the closing of a chapter or the opening of a new one? You tell me.
Do you think Jimmy G. could have won us a game or two more and put us in the mix? Historically, the guy wins, even if it often doesn't look pretty. Or do you think it was correct to stick with AOC to the bitter end? Do we have our coach, or does the search officially begin tonight?
So many questions, and another season on the outside looking in, 'round and round we go and it's Groundhog Day again. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 1:27 PM
125 Comments:
IMO, the Raiders are playing for Pierce to have a chance at becoming HC. A loss could bury Pierce.
My guess is Jimmy G could have won an extra game or two, especially, the Vikings game, but we have JG to thank for firing of Josh McDaniels. I supported McDaniels hire, and boy was I wrong.
Pierce is definitely an upgrade over McDaniels. But is he the better option than Harbaugh? Based on my initial choice of McDaniels, I defer.
I will say, I am 100% against Belichick or Gruden for HC. Pierce is a better option than both, IMO.
This game definitely means more than a draft pick. I'll take the loss of 3-4 slots to make the right choice at HC, if Pierce is that guy.
IMO, the Raiders have a core of coaches and players that I'd like to see carry forward. Patrick Graham (with Pierce at HC) has made a resurgence and is currently one of the best DCs in the league.
RAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIDEEEEEERRRRRRRS! THIS WAS THE WAY TO CLOSE IT OUT! AP should be the Head Coach, I won't be upset with a Harbaugh hire either, but right now, I prefer AP.
Now let me just say a BIG HELL NO to the rumor of Belichick being the next HC. If Mark Davis is serious about the Raiders' Way and no to Patriots' way, then he should tell Tom Brady to suck it too.
This is the biggest offseason for the Raiders, if Mark gets it wrong, we sunk and probably for good. Go with who the players want, Mark.
Best play of the game was Jack Jones defense of a long pass headed for the end zone. If the Raiders don't bring Jones back next year, there's something really wrong with them. It was a play that Robertson got beat (which we've seen a lot this year). Jones came from the other side and saved the play.
Pierce had the team ready to play. I agree he deserves a shot, but he needs to keep Graham in place.
Meant to also mention, that's three division wins in a row for Pierce, including KC in KC.
There's a very strong argument to make for retaining Pierce (and Kelly).
If you prefer to carry forward with what looks like a solid core of young players who are hungry to win, AP is the only option. No Raiders player is safe if Harbaugh is hired. Hopefully, Davis won't be fooled again in that regard, if it is his intention to carry forward with the recent progress.
AP brings immediate cure to the Raiders failed culture(s). He's a player's coach who doesn't BS them, nor take BS from them.
Under AP (and specifically after AP took over), Patrick Graham has excelled. Raiders are suddenly a top-10 defense, with room for improvement. That's partly due to the leadership of Crosby and Pierce, as well as the emergence of guys like Koonce, Adam Bulter, Spillane and Jack Jones. Again, none of these guys would be safe under Harbaugh.
Champ Kelly has promised to target a franchise QB as priority #1, along with bolstering both lines. IMO, that's exactly the right approach. And Pierce should look to upgrade OC.
There's a lot to build on. The prospect of that with Pierce and Kelly guiding the Raiders is very appealing to me.
Pierce did his job and ended the Raiders season strong. Now it's Harbaugh's turn to show us what he's got. He will be the top NFL HC prospect, no doubt.
This is much bigger than we think. If you go to Raiders.com and watch AP in the post-game locker room, you'll see Charles Woodson and Marcus Allen there celebrating with the team. These are two of the best players in Raiders history and they are behind AP 100%. If you listen to AP's Monday presser, you'll see him do the Raaaaiders chant with media.
I know I've been critical of Al Davis and the way he handled the team for many years leading up to his death, but I don't disbelieve the Raider way can still work. I believe Antonio Pierce offers a rare opportunity for the Raiders to truly get back to the Raider way of playing football, from him being a fan of the Raiders growing up in Compton to being a star LB of the Giants to being head coach of the Raiders. Hell, it's a movie in the making.
There can be no question that the Raiders players want to play for Pierce. Players embraced Art Shell too, because Shell embodied who the Raiders were. Gruden had that moment but, unfortunately, Davis took that from him and us.
All NFL teams are talented. This is my central criticism against listing players because they have impressive stats. Who cares! Winning takes much more than player stats. Players have to buy what the coaches and management are selling. It's chemistry. And I don't remember better team chemistry since the successes of Madden, Flores, Shell I and Gruden.
I regret my support for Josh McDaniels, but I will not regret getting behind Antonio Pierce. If he becomes HC and fails, I will fully embrace the decision to hire him.
Pierce embodies the Raiders, who they were and who they want to be.
For me, it doesn't matter if Harbaugh wins the championship tonight. Sounds corny but I want the Raiders back.
To Raider Take,
Super Broncos vs. Raiders' All-Stars:
J. Elway
F. Little
H. Griffith
S. Sharpe J. Thomas #2
E. McCaffery M. Jackson #4
D. Thomas H. Moses #3
D. Studdard
R. McDaniel
T. Nalen
T. Glassic
G. Zimmerman
J. Turner(K)
G. Milbyrn(KR)
H. Long
T. Washington
B. Golic(3-4 NG)
D. Burgess
T. Hendricks W. Hall(3-4 ILB)
G. Biekert
J. Robinson
L. Hayes S. Routt(nickle)
K. McGlougan E. Allen(dime)
R. Lott
D. Fulcher
J. Gossett(P)
J. Ford(KR)
J. Plunkett
C. Garner
M. Van Eagan
R. Chester D. Waller
T. Brown J. Lofton#3
B. Chandler H. Renfrow#4
C. Hannah
G. Upshaw
D. Mosebar
C. Carlisle
B. Brown
C-Bass(K)
D. Ware
R. Cater D. Wolfe(4-3 DT)
S. Fletcher
V. Miller(3-4 OLB)
R. Gradishar
A. Wilson
T. Jackson
L. Wright Mark Haynes(nickle)
C. Bailey R. Robbins(dime)
S. Foley
S. Atwater
T. Rouen(P)
R. Upchurch(PR)
To Raidernation,
Al Anon-
We won late in the season! we won some big games but we also are letting some wins turn average talent into a contender! we are not a very good team and we need to rebuild and bring in some very good players and coaches! we need to make some big time moves and try to find a front office that will try to look for stars in elite and high character college stars in this years' draft.
No to Bellichick? I don't believe it!! you mean Raidernation didn't let the media con them!? No, I don't think they should hire him but a lot of fans go by W/ L and stats so they might be excited to have him! He's a good HC but I don't think it would be wise to bring in people who may want a big stake in the team and might want to erase more of Al's era!
AP may have leadership skills but:
no offense to C. Kelly but we don't have the GM that will spend and bring in the talent he can coach, it ain't happening with the NFL/ owners having say in Raiders!
the NFL/ owners have say in Raiders and they won't let them do like Al!
he is not an experienced personnel-type HC and that's were we will not be able to compete with the rest of the AFC!
somebody else will get J. Harbaugh and if he succeeds the media will go after the Raiders for not hiring him.
It took P. Graham all this time to be a good DC and I think he might be good enough to keep but he might need another assistant head DC to help him.
Good game. Harbaugh deserves credit. He will definitely get paid.
For all the hype, it was mostly a defensive battle for which both teams showcased some talented D players.
I don't watch much college FB, so there are some formations and plays on offense and special teams that look a bit unconventional. A lot of movement before the snap by both teams, but it looks like deception tactics more than read and react to the defense.
Michigan is a run-first offense. All their scores were runs. McCarthy finished with only 140 yards passing but he's obviously a great athlete. He looked fairly poised and was accurate on at least one roll-out pass I saw. Not sure about timing plays. He seems to improvise a lot and he runs well.
Disappointed to see both teams' WRs drop so many passes. That underscores the importance of the Raiders WR group, IMO.
Huskies RB came into the game injured, and they appeared to have no serviceable backup. In the end, the game was too big for them.
My takeaway is that interest in Harbaugh only grew after his win. However, I'm sticking to my previous posts that AP is the right guy for the Raiders. IMO, the Raiders have tried over and over to find a head coach, but maybe they just need the right person. Pierce is definitely a Raider through and through, and he's a born leader. He doesn't have to call plays to be a successful HC. Most play-calling HCs for the Raiders failed miserably.
Harbaugh is reported as already assembling his staff for his next coaching gig. Is that a group from college level or pro level? I think it makes a difference.
IMO, Harbaugh's fate could go either way. He will get hired (maybe by Mark Davis), but it's impossible to tell if he'll return to the success of his pro HC career in SF or hit a wall like Nick Saban. My guess is he'll land somewhere in between.
Harbaugh is a great coach, but IMO the Raiders need an edge, and someone who will expand on growth already in progress. Antonio Pierce for HC!
Raiders had zero penalties against Denver! They also did it against the Chiefs. That's 2x in the last 3 weeks... with Pierce at the helm.
Impressive!
O'Connell had 8 TD passes to zero INTs in his last 4 games this year. Again, impressive.
This is what we can expect from the Raiders under AP. Trust, respect and discipline.
An off-season of selective coaching upgrades, free agency and draft could do wonders for AP as HC.
NY,
Not only was Woodson and Allen in the Locker Room post-game victory; Plunkett, Otto, and Hendricks were there as well. Also, Mark Davis asked Violator and Gorilla Rilla to light the torch before the game on Sunday, took them up in his elevator to the torch. Mark cares about the fans, and cares about this team. He has to know that the players, alumni, and majority of fans want AP and does not discount that. With that said, he will also do his due diligence in his search for GM and HC. If it were me, he and Kelly would have already been hired.
Even with the loss, I am still interested in Penix Jr as QB if we cannot trade up for Drake Maye or Caleb Williams. I think Penix slips to #13. Michigan played like they had been there before, and Washington looked lost. I think this win will definitely drive interest for Harbaugh, but in the end I think he makes more money in college and stays. The only way that changes for me is if the New England job comes open.
I'm not sold on Harbaugh or Belichick because they want GM control as well as being HC. After Gruden and McDaniels, I don't think that is a good plan. I also wish, MD would kick Brady to the curb and rely on the "football" knowledge of Plunkett, Allen, Woodson, Lincoln Kennedy, JT the Brick, and some others. C-Wood has expressed his interest in helping in that role; and I don't know why MD let's Brady hang around. If I go to a game, and he's there, my standing rule of kicking him is still in play. Say "no" to dope. JUST WIN, BABY!
Harbaugh will want GM control and call plays. We've seen this play out, recently!
I agree wrt Tom Brady. My only interest in Brady was to play QB. We're way past that now. I like Brady but he's the antithesis of being a Raider. He personifies the "Tuck Rule" which could not be more anti-Raider.
At this point, Mark Davis's fascination with the Patriots is disturbing. It's already a failed project, let it go, Mark.
If Davis hires Bill Belichick, we will have truly jumped the shark.
To Raidernation!,
Al Anon-
the new Raiders need time, about a month, to find their new HC! you guys claimed Al brought in mediocre-average coaches but he took his time looking for them!
wow! I still don't believe you guys didn't get conned! you really aren't supporting the Patriot way? what happened? did their 'be cheap'-, "coach 'em up"-, push or get rid of star/ attitude players system work? we are using the Patriots' way now- you guys want to move on from it? you mean, you can deal with new regimes other ideas? some teams might want different kinds of players and front office- can you deal with something not 'Patriot way'? can you handle MD interviewing, maybe hiring some/ one of these guys?
to NY Raider, MD's fascination?: you guys were so sure the Pat's guys and ex-Patriots' players would turn us into a winner that you completely ignored arguments and claims that maybe their system was too complicated/ delicate to copy and BTW...we didn't know how to find the kind of QB and HC to build a team like theirs.
Hey Raidernation! the LAC's will rebuild their offense and find receivers for Hebert-, Denver has coach Peyton and they'll be building their defense/ looking for another ex-star veteran QB and they'll be much better in '24! K.C. ain't go'in nowhere!- they're still the team to beat in the AFC! they have a very good front office and it will take some talent and a game plan to win a wild card spot much less win the AFC West!
the new Raiders need talent and they need a HC and GM that can find them. So IMO...I think they should take a lot of time and maybe go for Harbaugh but maybe coach Pierce can get another chance or be the assistant HC with us.
Al had a lot of practice hiring head coaches.
A month? The middle of February? Did you forget there are 31 other teams, probably 6-8 of which are searching for their own HC and GM replacements? Who are you waiting for? Harbaugh? He's available right now and other teams with ample resources are interested.
You want to clear out the building and hope someone is still around for you to hire?
Honestly, your penchant for "more of the same" speaks for itself.
If all Al's coaches were so good, why did he fire them all? As a rule, people don't get fired for doing good work.
NY Raider,
If Al's coaches were so good, why did he fire them?:
Because he was trying to win NOW! because he FELT he was ready to win, a playoff level team and any decent/ average coach had everything to win and win now! and when there was strange decisions, bad moves with personnel and failure he quickly fired them!
He didn't just fire them because they were losing the team had the talent, assistants and front office to win now and he FELT his HCs' already had what they needed to win now! and he couldn't understand why they didn't!
there were many teams nowhere near as loaded so if a game manager/ decent HC worked for a talented team he might have a better chance to win!
it made no sense to be losing like that! I mean it was almost impossible for a professional sports team to lose like that without a logical reason and there was none!
If Al was "ready to win" as you say, why didn't he hire a HC who was ready to win? You can't have Al's cake and eat it too. This isn't a one-off. We're talking about firing after firing!
Strange moves? Like Marcus Allen getting benched?
Bad moves with personnel?
Do you actually believe coaches made personnel decisions while Al was in charge?
That defies everything we know (knew) about Al Davis.
The idea that the Raiders were more loaded with talent than other winning teams is a complete farse. Certainly not provable by any means. Keep your players stats in your pocket.
It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to apply reason and logic.
You can revere Davis and understand his shortcomings. Those things do not conflict. Both good and bad are part of his legacy.
Raiders have blocked requests by teams to interview both Graham and Pierce for DC openings.
That's encouraging for me because I want Pierce and Graham to remain. However, the Raiders cannot block head coaching interviews for either coach, and both coaches have been requested for interviews. Maybe it's a Rooney Rule thing, but I doubt that because both guys are class acts and highly qualified. As Pierce said, his resume was on the grass. IMO, the job he did with the Raiders as Interim HC cannot be overstated.
If Mark Davis feels like he needs to spend more money and hire Harbaugh, I hope he does it for more than notoriety. He's been guess-wrong every time so far... sadly, following in Al's footsteps for the past 30+ years.
Kelly and Pierce! With Douglas Morgan as president. How can that possibly be wrong! That's a power trio for sure.
To be sure, requests by other teams to interview Pierce gives Pierce leverage and places some urgency on the process.
Raiders ended the season with the highest scoring defense in the league, and one which made huge improvement since Pierce took over as HC.
I get the offense wasn't what anyone would brag about, but it also made improvement. O'Connell got better as the season progressed and he was nominated the last three weeks of the season for rookie of the week. Mayer and White made big strides this year. The Raiders drafts under Ziegler weren't nearly as bad as past regimes.
There's a lot to hope for (and expect) if this carries forward.
'02 team: Rice, Woodson, C-Wood, Garner, Gannon, Rominowski, Brown
Noooo, NY I meant Al expected his HCs' to be able to run his talented teams. he probably felt he didn't need to tell them much with all that talent around them.
The "strange moves" I was saying were what some of them(HC's) made like benching/ not using good players, not stopping bickering/ gossip in the locker room which upset Al and eventually help them get fired. But yes you can add Al's benching of M. Allen was a strange move and can add that as being one of his moves.
a Farse?: '03 losing team: Rice, Brown, C-Wood, Woodson, Biekert, Garner, Akbar(T.V. "The Talk"), T. Armstrong, Wheatley, Crocket, Rominowski. this is an awesome roster and it is as
just to make this fun and to show you
'16 "new" Raiders' playoff stars:
Carr(DNP), J. Richard, K. Mack, Irvin, Carrie, C-Wood, Penn, Osemele, M. Crabtree, Hudson,
'05 Al's losers team:
Sapp, Nnamdi, T. Sands, J. Henderson, K. Barnes, Moss, B. Sims, C-Bass, S. Lechler, Jordan, Burgess, Collins, Morrison.
Now, to be honest its' hard for me to see these guys losing more than five games in a season. Reggie NEVER had talent like this. This team is better than that '16 playoff team yet it lost!
Collins lead Carolina to the SB with less talent and we had some of the best secondary DL and special teams units in the NFL. This was a very good team that just lost!
the '16 team wasn't a top team, it had attitude/ toughness and passion it was decent, had stars and a good HC but wasn't really a playoff team. it did win so I can't make them irrelevant, just that they didn't quite put it together they had holes and issues with their units but refused to spend and that kept them from winning in the playoffs. I think if they'd kept some of Al's guys and, spend more and bought in more experienced coaches they'd been a better team.
I don't think these guys were as bad as you think they were because that's saying all 31 NFL teams over a nine year period had better HCs' than the Raiders!
How predictable. Another list of players from the roster. Like somehow that makes it okay to make bad decisions at HC.
I think I can summarize for you. Al spent over a month thoroughly vetting head coach candidates to find the perfect fit for his abundantly talented teams but each head coach he hired failed and forced Al to fire him.
Six head coaches in less than 10 years after he traded Gruden.
That's not happenstance.
I wish I could downplay it and say Davis' coaching choices were fool's gold, but that would imply other teams were competing for the coaches Davis apparently coveted. They weren't!
Ummmmm......N. Turner was a very good coach for the Chargers!
L. Kiffin is allegedly one of the best young HCs' in college football!
H. Jackson was one of the best OC's and maybe the best we had since Al passed and he shouldn't've been fired by Reggie.
That's three guys who would make good NFL HCs'.
the Raiders had four future HOFers on that '03 roster and a lot of pro bowlers during that nine year slump. they also had good and outstanding vets and young players so like I said, it didn't make sense for them to lose like that!
you keep trying to make things simple black and white, this league is corrupt and you aren't what your record says you are in the NFL anymore! Al wasn't showing new HOF management but he wasn't ruining this team either! he had awesome talent and sometimes I admit a team can have issues that ruin even a talented team but this team had good coaches too. he couldn't get top/ elite HCs' because he scared them off or dysfunction! it was strange things like SOMEBODY telling NFL people to not work for/ avoid talking to him.
I can't believe I have to keep repeating myself on this matter. Your best case for success of these individuals is while they were outside of the Raiders organization. None of them did well working for Al Davis.
Norv Turner seems to be your go-to person. He coached the Raiders for two seasons and won a total of 9 games. He went from bad to worse during his time with the Raiders. Why do you think Al fired him?
Lane Kiffin was an unmitigated disaster with Al Davis. That story isn't worth repeating.
Jackson proved he was not a good head coach with a disastrous record in Cleveland.
You blindly give these people "A" grades because they were once Raiders. But they failed badly as Raiders.
As I said, it's not a coincidence. You're actually making my case for me.
In other news, the Patriots and BB mutually agree to part ways. The Patriots become the #1 landing spot for Jim Harbaugh, not the Raiders. I'm glad too, because the Raiders need to hire Pierce and bring Graham back as DC/Asst HC; and then they need to hire an OC. Belichick is looking at Atlanta, Tennessee, and you know the Chargers are going to take a swing at him. I think the best fit for Belichick as HC is Seattle. Also, Josh McDaniels is interviewing for the Titans job, hope he gets it and burns that team down too.
It will be weird not seeing BB on the sidelines of the Patriots, nor Saban on the sidelines of Bama next season. Who goes where and replaces them? Again, I think Harbaugh's #1 landing spot is now New England; and BB's best spot is Seattle. You heard it here first.
Unfortunately, nothing is off the table. IMO, Belichick just complicates things more. Mark Davis is not playing his hand on his intentions. If Belichick ends up wearing a Raiders jacket on the sideline of games next season I will be extremely disappointed. Belichick is a well-proven defensive coach, but he hasn't aged well since Brady left NE and he does not have much vision for offense, as evidenced by going a season without an OC, then hiring DC Matt Patricia to call plays on offense. What a disaster!
Any team that hires Belichick might be doomed for more of the same.
Saban could actually come back to the NFL too.
Mark Davis needs to be smart here. There are only two choices, IMO. Pierce or Harbaugh, and I am biased for leaving what was clearly working (improving!) in place.
Recent polling shows 70% or more of fans want Pierce to stay. Davis would be a hero to just remove the interim tag. Hiring Harbaugh will be far more subject to scrutiny, now and later.
Pierce's story is like a Raiders movie waiting to happen. Most fans want to see how it ends.
the new Raiders will hire Bellichick because they listen to the NFL/ owners.
if they stay and they probably will with the Patriot way, BB will be wearing the shield!
and when some fans complain and make good points it'll be you're paranoid, whining dizzy fans you are losers and now you could have the man' and get lead back to 'glory'!
and you know what?...most of you'll get conned!
I think N.E. will go for N. Saban first and if that doesn't work, they'll try to get Harbaugh!
you gotta know BB didn't leave and that's what he did! he didn't get fired! he left! why!?, because maybe Mr. Kraft told him he wasn't selling him a stake in the Patriots, he really wanted to leave/ retire or the NFL wants PARITY and more interested fans by having big name HCs' go to mediocre teams. If he goes to a bad team the fans will get excited and maybe L.V. fans will get excited too.
Nick Saban is stepping away from coaching and retiring. I think that will last a year, and he will end back in the college ranks somewhere. His stint in Miami left a nasty taste in the NFL's mouth.
I think Belichick ends up in Seattle, maybe even Chicago now that he's available. Richard Sherman posted on X that he'd love to see Pete Carroll coach the Chargers and change that culture. That would be interesting.
What will make New England the most attractive for Harbaugh is they hold the #3 pick in the draft, and they are looking to rebuild the offense, and I'd be curious to see what he could do with Mac Jones, Zappe, or a QB like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, or Daniels. Also the Patriots are not that far off from being winners again; they struggled offensively this year and I think that was more on Bill O'Brien.
With all of that said, I think the Raiders should keep Antonio Pierce and let him build his own offensive staff. The majority of fans, players, and alumni want this; and Mark should listen. If he doesn't, I think he will be kicking himself for years to come, and show Raider Nation he doesn't care. Just my opinion.
Al Anon, you are the one trying to con us. You are full of conspiracy theories that render Al Davis and the Raiders completely unaccountable.
If I didn't know better, I'd think you were just punking the rest of us.
You're reasoning behind Belichick and Kraft breakup makes no sense. Why do you feel the need to go way out on those limbs when the answers are right in front of you?
Sometimes the answer is as simple as it appears.
Bad record, bad job. Somebody always gets fired.
Did C. Noll get fired or did he retire?
Did T. Landry get fired of did he retire?
Did B. Parcells get fired or did he retire
The Con is this
coach Bellichick did not get fired! he owns sports in Boston/ MA he is the king and he would never get fired unless he well, slumped for years! Mr. Kraft firing BB?...No! he fired him publicly but really BB just left!
He'll be the next HC or GM of the Raiders and you'll get conned! you'll say finally we got our guy! we're going to the SB! we're gonna get great players! and kick K.C.'s ass now!
When fans complain you/ media will say! shut up! you're an Al loyal hater who can't stand seeing success this guy has been to seven SB and he's knows how to build a team, get with the program or just quit Raidernation!
the real shame is ownership BB is gonna want a stake in the team. and the NFL is gonna want MD to sale him a stake!
you'll get all excited and you don't care if these new stake holders ruin the culture and keep erasing Al's era from the team! you want to win so bad you don't care if they keep ruining the Raiders for a new culture that has no history of Al in it!
To Raider Take.
Al Anon-
What we will get if we got J. Harbaugh or B. Bellichick?:
with Bellichick: We won't be bad but as long as there are Al connected employees and the Davis family it wil be a strange relationship. The NFL won't be happy with Bellichick losing but the Davis family winning so somebody is going to have to take a seat. And if I'm right and BB wants a stake in the team that makes it hard to see how this won't put the Davis family a tough spot.
with Harbaugh in N.E.: yep Al surely didn't know how to build a front office! but Al had nothing to do with Harbaugh's success, it was all him! the Patriots will start winning! they won't look like BB's team but they'll keep some of his era on the team(some front office people and some of his ideas) but its' will be exciting and fun to watch with Harbaugh keeping some of BB's system, assistants and players but it'll be a different team. It might be a quick rebuild and may start winning soon!
With Harbaugh in L.V.: hey, a guy Al hired! wow! maybe it's not a good idea! maybe coach Pierce might be the winning choice! some fans would complain but most would be dancing in the streets! Harbaugh will take size and athleticism but high character guys too! he'll spend on star players and bring attitude! it'll be fun to watch the team be rebuilt into a good one but will fans put up with too much attitude and will the NFL let him go as far as he wants? will the Raiders try and do it his way or will he have to work with the league and not be too controlling of the Raiders? will fans still want him if the team takes awhile to win?
Al Anon
Did Bill Belichick retire?
No!
The "mutual decision" to part ways was because of his horrible performance the past two years. Bill Belichick got caught "quiet-quitting" on the Patriots after McDaniels left, now he's going to want $20M per year to coach another team.
Your prediction is Mark Davis will hire Belichick and he'll fail.
Duly noted.
Two days! Jerod Mayo named HC of the Patriots.
Geez! How novel, the Patriots had a succession plan in place! Their actions were swift and decisive!
Not like the shit show that's brewing in LV.
Raiders were the first team to have a HC opening this year. The process should have started months ago!
Somebody check the bars and hospitals for Mark Davis to make sure he's working on this.
Davis stupidly thinks his first move is to hire a GM, but if he hires Harbaugh or Belichick, hiring a GM will require their blessing.
Raiders are already losing assistant coaches (making laterals moves) and Graham and Pierce both have interviews for HC jobs.
Meanwhile, Davis is blatantly ignoring the will of the fans and the players (past and present) who want Pierce to be the coach.
Davis is interviewing Ed Dodds for GM today, which is whom he wanted last time over Ziegler. Then interviews Champ Kelly tomorrow. We could know by Monday who the next GM is, and I am saying by the end of next week for HC. Davis wants the GM to hire the coach, he let McDummy hire the GM. He's an idiot if he doesn't bring back Antonio Pierce as HC. Maxx Crosby, Jack Jones, Jermaine Elumenor, Spillane, Josh Jacobs, and other vets in the locker room; as well as alumni: Jim Plunkett, Jim Otto, Ted Hendricks, Marcus Allen, C-Wood, Tim Brown, Tom Flores, Lincoln Kennedy and others have all come out in support of AP. In fact, according to Ian Rappaport, Maxx "drew a line in the sand" with Davis about hiring Antonio Pierce. Ian would delve into what that means, but if Pierce doesn't come back, it will divide the players/locker room against Davis, and the Raiders will lose Josh Jacobs and Maxx Crosby (when Maxx becomes a free agent).
Time to LISTEN to the right people Mark, actual RAIDERS' players and alumni, not ex-Patriots wanting to be a Raider.
To quote one headline I read, Mark Davis is playing with fire. If Titans were to offer Pierce a HC post, he might be inclined to take it if he thought Davis might go another direction. After all, HC pays a lot more than LB coach, or even DC.
Titans have the 7th overall pick in the draft, so they are in a position to draft a franchise player, perhaps a top-3 QB.
Meanwhile, Pierce's assistant coaching staff is dismantling, so that has to be discouraging for Pierce and other staff members.
The fire only gets hotter if Davis doesn't get his initial choice. If that's Harbaugh and Pierce is no longer available... well, that's a problem!
If you're interested, I can sum this up.
First, two of the most successful sports programs in football history, New England Patriots and Alabama Crimson Tide, both had succession plans for their departing HCs who just recently decided to leave. That's how winning organizations/programs handle it.
Comparatively, Davis has had a HC opening for 10+ weeks and it appears he hasn't interviewed a single person for the job.
Instead, Davis is interviewing GM candidates. Huh? Does that make sense to anyone? What makes Davis think any top tier HC wants to work with Davis's choice for GM?
Did Davis already forget the McKenzie/Gruden dynamic?
Harbaugh or Belichick would certainly want to work with their own guy, like Gruden did.
Meanwhile, Davis's current top staff coaches are scattering around the league interviewing for other jobs.
Okay, maybe MD wants to look like he's done his homework, but he's a fool if he waits any longer to make Pierce his HC. That ship has almost sailed because it shouldn't require several weeks of deliberation. Davis already looks weak in this process.
Here you go, Mark, head coach notes for dummies.
Pierce - A Fiery and highly motivated coach who went 5-4 after a disastrous campaign of futility under McDaniels. AP went 3-1 in his last 4 games, with 3 divisional wins which included an impressive win in KC, a record-breaking win against LAC and a season sweep of Sean Payton-led Broncos. He has the full support of fans, players (past and present) and his staff of coaches. Bonus: He's a lifelong Raiders fan who understands their history and their culture. The most recognized players in Raiders history are waiting for MD to pull this trigger!
Harbaugh - coming off a national championship in college football. Clearly someone who has the pulse of the upcoming draft and a keen ability to win. Harbaugh is a top HC candidate for certain, but he has many other options, including teams with access to franchise player draft picks.
Bill Belichick - Age 72 and coming off the worst two years of his coaching career. This guy forgot to replace Josh McDaniels at OC but will want $20M a year and full control.
Mike Vrabel - His only HC experience has been with TN and his last two years were his worst. He's a mid-level candidate at best.
Pete Carroll - A solid HC. Coached Seahawks for 14 years, and went to playoffs almost every year, including a SB win. Impressive! But he flatlined the last couple years and is getting long-in-the-tooth at age 73. These guys don't know when to quit.
Jon Gruden - Gruden already had his 2nd chance in LV. While he may have shown glimpses of growth, it was a slow-walk recovery that didn't take off until Year 4, after Gruden left. 3x a charm? I doubt it.
The best of the rest - the league has a number of talented coordinators, some with past HC experience, but none who should supplant Antonio Pierce. That's just bad PR for MD and, frankly, stupid.
It's not rocket science, Mark. There are only two choices, but it feels like business as usual for the Raiders. Even with a light breeze blowing at their back, they continue to look like a rudderless organization destined for more failure.
Funny how Davis was decisive when he made Pierce and Kelly his interim choices. They did a bang-up job and now Davis is sitting on his hands running his interview process ass backwards.
I've said my peace. If you made it this far, thank you for listening.
To NY Raider,
First you claim Al just hired anybody mainly because nobody wanted to work for him(?). Now we should copy Alabama U. and the Patriots who had a plan.
That's the whole point NY we don't plan because we're listening to the NFL/ owners! they advise us! we don't handle our own business!
MD is right, this team needs a GM, one like his dad, the Rooneys or Dallas/ Mia HC Jimmy Johnson. They need a front office that know how to build a team.
Talking about a mediocre team upsetting other mediocre/ elite teams but missing the playoffs is being positive but also making claims over reaching the facts and not looking at the good/ bad and hype about the situation.
Al took time to hire his coaches and he made sure they knew how to lead a team. I think his choice during the slump were good. Maybe some weren't so good but most were and should've won. They had a genius and a very good front office to help them in a PARITY league. To just hire you coach is good if that's part of a plan, but when you are mediocre and trying to win you need to take time to find him. And Al was a legend and I think his ideas on hiring and taking time are good ones to listen to.
MD needs to find a good HC we don't need a good front office we need to find a very good/ top one. If that means hiring Harbaugh then, fine! But he really needs a top HC and front office and that might mean taking time even if one of these guys gets away! He might have to hire a good HC we might not have heard of! the problem is the NFL/ owners are advising him so its' not going to be that hard to guess they want a name HC!
We badly need a big name but we should want somebody we pick not them. As for coach Pierce we need a big name HC who knows how to find players and assistants so I think he did a good job but not sure he's the guy to build the Raiders.
The fact is a HC could use a guys like Al, Jimmy Johnson or the Rooneys to build this team. Looking for good HCs' after years of mediocrity is o.k. but we need guys who know how to build a team.
To NY Raider,
Sorry, I meant MD was right!, he needs to hire a GM first(IMO)!
You know the Patriots would have a game plan! they had their choice ready to take over!
Alabama U., went out and talked to this Washington U., HC and he agreed to work for them, yes, that was smart!
but other teams take their time to find a HC.
AL was one of those owners/ GMs' who took his time! and IMO...I think he was able to find good HCs'. with the Raiders' talent during that slump he didn't need an elite HC he was a guy who could help a HC himself and he had good assistants. Other than a few guys I think most of his HCs' during the slump were good enough to lead this team.
To Raidernation,
franchise QB: NO! if there's no QB like a Marino, Elway, R. Wilson or T. Bradshaw or E. Manning then don't draft one!
Al isn't the only Raiders' GM who didn't find a franchise QB! I think the Raiders would be better looking in the late rounds for a QB!
draft for defense: they don't have to but they need to understand the need NFL level CBs'. The Raiders not going for the top college DBs? wow! I know some of you feel Al was past his prime but still, to get rid of the old way of looking for top DBs' is still a surprise, strange and a shock to me.
No, they need to get that OL fixed and then find a fast RB then draft for D!
draft a OL in the first round: maybe, but if they can get that star edge/ DE, QB or CB then they should go for it. Koonce is a back up and we don't know what we have with T. Wilson. if they draft a LT it wouldn't be that bad a RT and G might make fans upset.
make trades: yes, this team needs a lot of help just to be a good team! they need to trade some of the talent they have. If they can't find their QB then they should trade D. Adams if they do then trade J. Meyers for more picks. Koonce, Meyers, Hobbs and Moehrig should be names in trade talks to see what teams might want to talk and T K. Miller should get put on the trade talk show but only to see if teams would trade with us but not do it.
should Raiders keep J. Jones?: I think they should trade him if somebody will take him! why? I don't know if he's a cover CB and that's what we need, a starting cover CB. but maybe he's a gold nugget and might be a starter, so maybe they hold on to him.
should they bring in elite assistants or let the HC bring his people:? for years the Raiders let their HCs' bring in their own front office but I think they should try and keep some of the guys from different regimes or bring some experienced NFL people to help the new HC. they should let a HC do it his way if he is a top HC who knows how to build a front office, the team should ask to bring in a few older NFL people if its' o.k. if the new HC says no, let him lead but if things stay the same the team should bring in older assistants. It might not help but a team might help a new HC by giving him help sometimes.
Al Anon!
Please! Your entire post has zero credibility because it starts with you saying the NFL and its owners decide for the Raiders. There's no truth to that... and you know it.
I wish I could make sense of your posts and we could have a reasonable exchange but apparently that's not possible.
I will say this, I never claimed Al Davis just hired anybody because nobody would work for him. You made that up. Al Davis was very methodical and deliberate with his HC hires. He hired coaches who agreed with his vision and that would answer directly to him, even if that meant in terms of play-calling (once a HC always a HC). That's primarily why top-tier coaches didn't want to work for Davis (NOT because somebody told them not to). Great coaches have their own vision and don't want to be told how to run their team. That left Davis selecting from upstart assistant coaches and retread veteran coaches. If you look down the list of Raiders HCs that's exactly what he had.
It's remarkable to me that you're such a long-time knowledgeable Raiders fan but this has to be explained to you.
We are at a critical moment right now and Mark Davis has a ton of options but very little room for error. This is no time to whip out the Al Davis playbook and get it wrong.
Maxx Crosby is lobbying his ass off for Pierce.
Davante Adams said he would "walk thru a wall for that man".
Charles Woodson, Jim friggin Plunkett and a long list of Raiders greats want Pierce.
A recent poll of 70% Raiders fans want Pierce.
For crying out loud, doesn't Mark Davis see that half the Raiders team is ready to follow Pierce to TN.
This should be a slam dunk, if for no other reason than the massive PR nightmare that's awaiting Mark Davis if he doesn't hire Pierce.
Get it done!
PS, hiring a GM first ONLY makes sense if you don't plan to hire a top-tier HC.
If I need to explain that to you, you definitely don't get it. There is no way Harbaugh or Belichick will want to work with a GM that doesn't share their exact vision or take instruction from them.
Elite HCs rise above GMs on the organizational hierarchy. Again, that's why Al never had an elite HC.
Why do you not understand that? It's Al Davis 101.
Anyone watching the Texans game is seeing CJ Stroud is a monster. Ziegler wanted to trade up for him and McDaniels wouldn't let him.
So instead of Tyree Wilson, we might have CJ Stroud and maybe not a 1st rounder this year as part of the trade-up.
Okay! Well worth it!
NY, the story about cj Stroud is bullshit made up by hondo carpenter its not true. In fact tge two idiots were only interested in Bryce so consider us lucky they couldn't trade up. Sandy
NY Raider,
A recent poll of 70%?: yea, but isn't that what they said about D. Allen and Del Rio? the excitement and hype then mediocrity! these assistants sometimes become great HCs' but this team needs an elite HC to build find good assistants and players! we had inexperienced HCs' before and now we need a very good-elite one!
Great coaches don't want to be told what to do?: one of the reasons the Raiders were successful was because somebody(coaches) had to listen not act on his own UNTIL the GM/ owner felt he was ready! even Al as a HC couldn't do everything he wanted until he learned from or listened to the owner/ GM or other coaches. you're right about one thing, we don't know how many times front office people had good ideas and Al said "no"! and it cost us but again how many times did he get "vetoed" with Oakland, L.A. and Baltimore when he had good ideas? if they want a HC to run things then they need the ones that know how, hiring a guy because he won a few games but is inexperienced isn't always good if you don't have a GM to help him or bring in people to help him.
everybody wants coach Pierce! yea, then when its' time to hire assistants, the draft, free agency, spending and deciding to give washed up or free agent stars a chance what will he do?
Somebody told coach Peyton not to work for Al! and you know that!!! you can make everything black and white and BTW...I didn't say its' all other's fault, but this was wrong and they probably never did that to any other GM/ owner. it wasn't exactly corruption and Al shares some of the blame for the losing but that was wrong.
Stroud?: it would've been great to have him! I don't think it would've been that big pick though. you guys wanted whoever the Pats' guys drafted and you even talked big about Wilson! Stroud is good, not great! he is playing on a mediocre team and doing good things but again, I say the Raiders need to look for their franchise QB in later rounds.
Yea, but he got three HOF guys who learned from him! two HC's and one GM(Flores, Madden and Wolfe)
dude...you and your black and white opinions/ view. you want to look smart, fair judge and unbiased but you want to make mediocrity good and looking at the past bad!
That's three HOF front office people only maybe, Pittsburgh comes close to that.
Al didn't find and elite HC?: He did have an elite HC and not way back in the past! he had Gruden!
Most of your model franchises hire the GM first! mainly, because the coaches are being hired from colleges or are young, OC types(like Gruden) now, sometimes they do well without much help! but then again a GM can help bring in people to help the new HC and his assistants succeed.
CJ
Sandy, didn't those reports come from the same source? Not sure I understand why you believe one part of the story to be true but the other to be total BS.
New York good morning the Brice young speculation came from a number of different sources including Victor Tafur the only article that expressed CJ Stroud rumor was that despicable Ghost Writer article Honda was writing on behalf of Zeigler. You can't trust Hondo he's the absolute shill self-absorb Punk. Sandy
Al Anon
How about some contrition? Your posts about Al Davis are not grounded with facts. As I said, you don't know as much as you think you do about Al.
You propagate conspiracies and non-truths like you're reading out of an encyclopedia.
Lol, I get called out for repeating a simple rumor (which may or may not be true - at least I can identify the source) but you run amuck with stuff that you can't possibly support (e.g., cite a source).
Personally, I'd rather have a full understanding of the truth, like it or not.
If you can point to a media report, a blog, or any obscure writings from any other source but yourself to support anything you've said, I could perhaps get behind it.
How about it? Do you have a source?
Thanks for the clarification. Carpenter regularly acts like he has the scoop. He cites "insider sources" and his media peers seem to respect him, so it's difficult to know what to believe. His readers also seem to cling to his every word. Clearly, we should take every report with a grain of salt.
Mark Davis is doing his best Al Davis impression right now with secrecy behind his HC search... like he's not actually conducting a HC search.
IMO, if Crosby put out the same trade request threat to Al Davis as he has to MD, he'd already be in the doghouse as trade bait. That has me a little concerned. Not that Crosby would react with a trade request, but that Davis might accommodate him for publicly interjecting in the process.
As I said, Mark Davis looks weak right now. If he swings and misses at Harbaugh and/or Belichick then goes back to Pierce, he won't just look weak.
Titans interviewed Pierce. Now Falcons are requesting an interview.
But Mark Davis has yet to formerly interview Pierce. Maybe that's semantics, but it seems like an obvious place to start the process... and not by interviewing GM candidates who might conflict with his HC choice.
Richard Seymour posts on social media that Mark Davis has sought his counsel to help find the Raiders next head coach. What can Seymour possibly bring to this process. Davis is way over his head.
Harbaugh is meeting with Chargers today. I'm fine if the Chargers hire him and we're done with this nonsense.
See Dan Campbell beat Sean McVay last night? Campbell is former TE and at the very bottom of the HC charts. Lions are a pedestrian team playing hard for their coach. Sometimes, that's all it takes.
We tried the X's and O's guy and that failed miserably.
Let's not lose any more assistant coaches before Pierce has a chance to decide their fate with his staff.
Selective continuity (players and coaches) is critical right now.
CeeDee Lamb had 135 receptions and 12 TDs this year. What a joke. That was such an obvious pick when the Raiders took Henry Ruggs instead.
Patrick Queen had 133 tackles. He's a FA. That would be a nice addition.
NY,
Pierce interviewed on Saturday with the Raiders. They are interviewing Leslie Frazier today; and I'm not sure why they are interviewing other candidates. In my opinion, it is either Pierce or Harbaugh. In fact, I'd interview Pierce, and when I interview Harbaugh, it would be in the locker room with the players invited.
I am glad Mark has a "counsel" of people with him, but there are better "Raiders" alumni for the post than Seymour; but Seymour has been around the building trying to be a scout and work his way up to GM. I think it is a good move by Mark Davis to try and help Seymour out. It shows that Mark cares about people; which he does, in fact, he views it as a weakness because he has a hard time letting people go (except for McDaniels/Ziegler).
I really think Antonio Pierce situation is a lot like Art Shell. He's a player's coach who understands Raiders culture, and wants to establish the Raiders Way. I don't see any negatives to this. Yes, he may be inexperienced, but so was Campbell of the Lions; and look what he has done there. Incredible energy, and I think Pierce will bring the same.
With that said, I am pulling for anyone to knock the Chiefs out of the playoffs and prevent them from coming to Vegas for the Super Bowl. I think it will be the Ravens or Bills who represent the AFC. To be honest, I'm pulling for the Ravens because I like Lamar Jackson. An interesting Super Bowl matchup however, would be the Texans v Lions; but I don't think the Texans can get by the Ravens or Chiefs.
I tell you what, the Packers took it to the Cowboys, and I'm happy. Living in TX, there are a lot of Cowboys fans here that are annoying. There is already grumbling that Jones is going to fire McCarthy and bring in Belichick. I don't think Belichick would want to coach for Jones. I think that would sour quicker than Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones. If it were up to the Mediots, it would be a Chargers v Cowboys Super Bowl every year, because it is their year, every year.
The Rams v Lions game was an incredible game last night. I was happy for Jared Goff, it seems like he got his revenge against McVay last night. He played well.
Going to be a fun post-season, as long as the Chiefs get knocked out. I'm already looking into the draft; so hopefully, after Mark hires a GM/HC, I will start getting serious about where I think they will go. Until then, hire Kelly and Pierce and JUST WIN, BABY!
Nate, Pierce was in TN interviewing for Titans job on Saturday. Next up: the Falcons.
There's no report (that I can find) which suggests he interviewed with the Raiders on Saturday or at any time. Can you provide a source?
MD's only known HC interview is pending with Leslie Frazier. Please! That's a Rooney Rule interview (which is an insult on many levels).
Wrt Seymour, it's funny how Davis might listen to Seymour but not reach out to Maxx Crosby who is absolutely the heart and soul of the team. Seymour played for the Raiders briefly at the end of his career. His exposure consists of playing for Bill Belichick, and he played with Mike Vrabel (as a player for NE).
IMO, holding counsel with Richard Seymour and Tom Brady is not in the Raiders' best interest right now.
Please tell me we are not headed for a Belichick-Brady reunion. Two guys who don't know when to quit! That sounds like a Mark Davis dream come true.
Chargers are interviewing Harbaugh today! Harbaugh is "the" top HC candidate this year. I don't think there's much debate on that.
If the Raiders were doing this right, Harbaugh would already be on their schedule.
Raiders have been a day late and a dollar short for over 20 years. It's been painful to watch them do business over that period. It continues to be business as usual.
I can say without question there are better candidates for GM and HC than Kelly and Pierce. The better question is, are they right for the Raiders at this moment? Based on what we're seeing so far, I don't think Mark Davis has a clue. Interviewing low-level execs and Leslie Frazier isn't going to get us anywhere.
Harbaugh and Pierce are immediately available. Let's pick one and be done!
If it's Harbaugh, then hire a GM that he agrees to work with. if it's Pierce, Kelly is your man.
This isn't rocket science. It's painfully obvious. And don't BS me about due diligence because that's business as usual.
It looks like Mark Davis is playing a risky game of trying to burn a candle at both ends.
Trying to keep AP in the fold, while casting a net to lure Harbough in as next HC.
The risk is, of course, that Davis will end up losing both. Which, sorry to say, sounds like a Raiders outcome since MD has owned team.
MD has the guy right in front of him, and it's AP. Yes, AP is a rah, rah, guy, in mold of Campbell, Vrabel, Tomlin. It can work. But MD seems to want the "sure thing" in Harbough...But there are no sure things in NFL, so, be careful what you wish for.
NY, My bad, it was Kelly who interviewed on Saturday. He interviewed with Carolina on Thursday and the Raiders on Saturday. I expect the Raiders to announce tomorrow (Tuesday) that Kelly has been hired as GM, and that Pierce will be HC maybe Thursday or Friday this week.
With that said, I am on board with what Crosby said this last week too. If you haven't heard his whole interview on his podcast, check it out. Dude has nothing but passion for the Raiders, and has said since he has been in the building, the culture and player development hasn't been there; and with Pierce it became evident that development is his game; and player development is what changed the culture. THIS is why he said if AP is not hired, he is going to explore all options; including giving the new HC a chance to see how he develops.
NY Raider,
A.P. is unproven! Bellichick comes with a lot of shady, questionable and unclear reasons! and Saban said he's retiring.
Its' not about who we want it's about the culture of this team and we've allowed the NFL to tell us who to support! we need a guy who can find talent and who can help draft talent and find good front office people. so we may not need that guy who is good at one thing, we need a guy who can build a team and make his plan work and win more with a team of good players and coaches.
Raidernation wants' a new HC? then look at the coaches out there!:
Harbaugh/ a player magnet! he is a rah, rah guy with an attitude! I don't know if he knows' personnel but he knows how to find people who do and he'll keep the team motivated.
Bellichick/ probably doesn't want any part of the Raiders but, the NFL wants MD to keep selling stock-; having a dynasty building HC makes it more attractive to buyers.
The Chargers will 'kick ass' with Harbaugh Raidernation will get some success and a division title with Bellichick! and A.P. will get us excited, with high hopes and supporting his game plan.
of them all, Harbaugh might be the best. until A.P. has answers about
But the NFL isn't interested in what's best for us so they want Bellichick here and you'll fall for it!!
* You talk about Al trading for guys like Seymore but who hired him as a scout? was it MD or was it somebody who wants to bring Bellichick to the Raiders?
Ghost Ship
You read my mind. Davis looks clueless, again. Meanwhile, I believe we lost a good O-line coach in Carmen Bricillo who left for a lateral job with the Giants. That's because Raiders coaches were immediately given permission to interview elsewhere.
Davis should have locked up the entire staff and let Pierce decide who stays and who goes.
Right now, it's still a free-for-all. That's only valid if the Raiders can secure Harbaugh, who has his own list of assistant coaches.
No. This is Mark Davis running another coaching search as blind as the previous ones. The only difference now is that has a legit HC in waiting. Pierce! Until Pierce has seen enough.
The teams looking for coaches have jobs now. Not after the playoffs, when Al often waited.
Rumor Mill reporting Kliff Kingsbury could get OC job if the Raiders hire Pierce. That's really encouraging to think that Pierce might already be contemplating an OC. I say, keep Hardegree as QB coach.
Continuity is important!
The new AFC West '24
could be the most exciting and powerful division in the NFL!
With K.C. still an elite team and Denver rebuilding the LAC's and Raiders could add some elite HCs' to the division. But if the LAC's get Harbaugh it could be tough on us!
LAC:
have a franchise QB
have a strong pass rush
has a decent OL
they need: WR's, NG, RB, LB's, OT and DB's
If they get Harbaugh they'll get their LB's, the old way used to WR's but he'll probably try and bring in more defensive talent first. He'll be able to get free agents find good front office people.
Raidernation doesn't always get the point!
A.P.
Raiders:
won big games late in the season.
have a top pass rusher
have top kickers
have good receivers
needs: DB's, edge/ DE, DT's, OL's, RB, KR/ PR, QB, LB's.
A.P. is gonna have to have a huge draft to build a team. I think some star FA's would like to play for him but will the NFL let him spend on them? he needs to find good assistants who can motivate and teach the players while he leads the team. can he be a Raider fan and blue collar HC and win for us?
Good news, Richard Seymour was caught hanging out with Pierce and Kelly at MLK event. They were all smiles.
Frig! This might be happening.
What makes Crosby, Adams and other key players happy would make me happy.
Will Seymour be taking an official role with the Raiders? I think maybe we can add him to the list of former greats behind AP.
This could be an all-hands-on-deck approach in 2024.
I hope you guys are right about AP being "almost" hired.
But why does Mark Davis let the HC he intends to hire, go one job interviews with other teams ?
This seems a little crazy to me.
It's like , oh yeah, we're gonna hire you AP, but go ahead and talk to some other teams while we draw up the contracts. Does this make any sense ?
Already lost the OL coach. Who else will we lose before MD can finally decide what to do ?
As usual, if Mark Davis does something right, it will be by accident.
Remember, he only fired the two stooges because a fan heckled him.
Mark Davis has no control over his coaches who interview for head coaching jobs, including Pierce who was only interim HC. His biggest mistake is his indecision. He's already had 10 weeks. What's he been doing?
Davis's leverage with Pierce is exactly why Pierce is the best choice. Pierce is a Raider!
NY Raider
Dolphins HC Mike McDaniel said he will look at having an OC take over play calling. McDaniel ran the #1 offense in the NFL. That demonstrates the importance of a HC who delegates and oversees.
Many past Raiders coaches have called plays and failed.
"When it comes to the NFL, the athletes are pretty even at the end of the day. And you need somebody that the players listen to, who they'll play for, run through a brick wall for, and when you find that, you can't let it go." Ice Cube said on the Pat McAfee show.
Apparently, Jim Harbaugh is multitasking and negotiating a new contract with Michigan while he explores HC options in the NFL.
Harbaugh is smart and clearly looking out for his self-interests.
Raiders have a mgt/coaching team in place that is 110% behind the organization and its goals.
This really shouldn't be a tough or drown out decision. It could have happened weeks ago, like after the Chiefs game when it was obvious the Raiders had their leader.
There are probably 8-10 teams looking for replacements for OC. Mark Davis could still give AP a jump on that action.
I believe Graham is under contract, so he can only leave if he gets a HC job offer.
So, the guys MD hired were stooges because they didn't win here? before that you were against all of those moves?
Reggie
Gruden II
the Pats' guys
really? no you guys were all in on all of them
Del Rio: took us to the playoffs and after that you threw him under the bus. Al fires guys because he was jealous? this guy won and all you guys could talk about was getting Gruden back!
now all of those guys are suddenly bad hires!
the Pats' guys helped build a dynasty. when some fans protested you guys said shut up this is a great move by MD!
when Reggie was hired you said its' a painful change but Al was past his prime and now that he passed away its' time for a new era. when fans protested you/ media said shut up! stop the Al-worship/ love! we got a new, modern GM and he's gonna take us back to our past glory!
Gruden oh yea, he built those last great Raiders' teams and that's why the team started losing after the SB without Gannon and Gruden Al couldn't win.
Wow! you can forget things when you want! it was you guys who supported and listened to media/ NFL hype about these new regimes, now you're trying to say maybe you didn't support or say big things about them like you just seemed to be doing- you didn't really want them it just looked like you did.
Who are you talking about? "You" who??
Raiders fans roll with the punches and root for the coaches hired and hope they succeed.
You don't?
Don't look now, but not only did the Raiders interview Leslie Frazier today; Vic Tafur and Tashan Reed are reporting Antonio Pierce had his formal interview, and Champ Kelly had a follow-up interview today. I also think it is a good sign that both were with Richard Seymour yesterday at an MLK Day Parade; and Pierce had an old school Starters Raiders' jacket on that you cannot get anywhere today. Several people have commented like they are acting like they are the new GM and HC of the Raiders.
I don't buy the "he has no experience" argument; it's not just about experience, Head Coaching is about setting the culture and allowing your other coaches to do their job. This is what made Madden, Flores, Al Davis, and Art Shell so good. This is what makes Campbell, Sirianni, Mike McDaniel, Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Demeco Ryans, Andy Reid, and many others so good in today's game. I believe it is what will make Antonio Pierce good. Yes, at some point they will need to manage a game; but even Belichick and other HC's have people in their ear to make challenges and take time outs, etc. Head Coaching is all about who you surround yourself with. Maxx Crosby said it best on his podcast that he wants AP because AP came in and changed the culture and started helping players develop, something that had not been done on the coaching staff since he arrived. Those are the 2 BIGGEST things to help a team become contenders.
The Kliff Kingsbury rumor started from Colin Cowherd, and to be frank, I don't trust his "rumors" as they have often proved to be from his own imagination. People are claiming, already, that if he comes it points to us drafting Caleb Williams; yet if you followed USC football this season, I think USC's offense digressed under Kliff as the season went on. The rumor not getting any play is Kliff going to be the HC at Washington since DeBoer's departure to be the HC at Alabama.
Harbaugh is reportedly trying to negotiate with Michigan for a clause about dismissal over NCAA Investigation. He is leveraging these NFL interviews to stay at Michigan. If Michigan won't add a clause about not dismissing him over NCAA allegations, then he goes to the NFL. We will see....
No!, I don't roll with the punches because when I did in the past! YOU said I was supporting a warn out, ancient system by a senile old owner!
This is the kind of con job the NFL/ owners play on us!
No! Al was unique like Jimmy Johnson, the 49ers' front offices, Bellichick and the Rooney's he not only could coach he knew how to build a team! that's what we miss we thought we had both with Gruden/ Mayock and the Pat's guys but it didn't work out!
If we don't find that guy/ few guys we'll get another model franchise type HC who can't build or find the right assistants to win with.
We need to find that guy/ few guys who know how to build a team. We don't need to roll with the punches if we already know that good HC's who aren't experienced and don't really deal with personnel and hiring assistants aren't really what we need right now.
no, rolling with the punches wasn't o.k. with Al's regime and supporting the same things we've been told would help us win and waiting for the new regime to use them to build our team is getting a little too all in with the Raiders' actions and not asking for a guy that can build from free agency, coaching vets and the draft and find good assistants but just support guys who the media/ Raiders say are good HCs'.
You're on a vengeance tour by hating the Raiders because Al's no longer leading the charge?
Who do you want for HC? Norv? Art? Belichick?
Who is the NFL hiring to coach the Raiders?
to NY Raider and other Anon!,
Who is "You"?:
YOU!!!
'12/ Its' a new era! Al was a pioneer but he ruined this team with overpaid athletes and bad draft picks but oh, Reggie is gonna fix this mess and take us back to 'glory'!
hater fans still holding on to the past and full of Al followers we were stuck in the past and now we have a real GM whose gonna build us a winner we have to wait about 5 years to overhaul this team but we'll be an elite team when Reggie is done!
One playoff appearance and some of the worst defenses in the NFL!
a lot of good front office people fired!
a lot of outstanding players let go!
a roster of cheap players
losing seasons
YOU!!!
We got the man now! its' Del Rio! he's an ex DC and he gonna coach em up! he's a Raiders' fan and is from the bay area! he's an ex-LB who knows defense, he'll help the DC and find the players to build a good defense. he'll let the OC run the offense and the Raiders will be a good team!
Coach Del Rio lead the Raiders to the playoffs but MD and Raidernation decided they wanted a better HC! they didn't think coach Del Rio could take them back to 'glory'.
YOU!!
Yea! Gruden II is gonna take us back to glory! he built those Y2k contenders, the reason we're losers is because him and Gannon left us. He'll make Carr a winner and we'll be winners.
when some fans complained: look, coach Del Rio did good but he wasn't the answer! Gruden II never should've been fired and now he'll build a winning team and draft good players and sign star FA's! he's gonna take this team back to 'glory'.
coach Gruden/ Mayock lead the Raiders to one playoff game.
YOU!!!
the Raiders got two guys from a dynasty! and they're gonna turn this franchise into a winner. We're gonna see Carr learn from a top QB coach(McDaniels). we're gonna be a good team and with out talent make the playoffs.
when some fans complained: haters need to stop attacking these two, McDaniels has learned from his mistakes and Ziegler might be a very good GM.
they got rid of a lot of good players and then lost a lot, they were fired before the '23 season was over and LBs' coach A. Pierce was given the interim coach job for the rest of the year.
YOU!!! you NY! you and other guys made those claims! now you want to pretend that you didn't! you really need to take some time and relax and work on your stories because you're starting to get confused! I think you guys really need to stop putting Al down!
yes YOU!!! and your bias-ness! YOU- and your silliness! YOU- and unfair attacks against Al! and write the team and ask about their attitude and actions toward fans like overcharging prices, firing all of Al's employees, listening to outsiders and not trying to hire an elite HC! why they don't have more connection to their fans the ones who can't come to L.V.? fans who love this team but have to watch on t.v. or web they should try and connect to them!
That's foolishness. Al Davis would NOT be in this conversation if not for you... promoting the same failures that got us into this mess.
Obviously, you have no idea what happened to the Raiders or why. Or you simply choose to ignore the facts.
During his so-called "slump" Al Davis had no succession plan and left the team in shambles. In the years leading up to his demise Al overspent on your so-called "star" players trying to shoot the moon for another championship and all he did was dig a deeper hole for the organization to climb out of after his death. If McKenzie had no other talents, getting the Raiders out of salary cap hell was his strength.
The Raiders were once a truly great team. However, Al Davis coined a phrase that's very telling.
"The greatness of the Raiders lies in its future."
Who's future? What future?
Turns out, the Raiders went the opposite direction. And here you are propping it up and propagating for more of the same. NO THANKS!
Honestly, I've never seen anyone so connected to Al Davis and yet so removed from the facts as you are.
It's not me who is biased. It's you! Bias has clouded your judgement.
Raiders completed yesterday the Rooney Rule; they can announce a new GM and HC at any time now. The real decision is at GM, does Mark take Ed Dodds (who he wanted when he hired McDaniels) or does he bring back Champ Kelly. No matter who he picks, is not a bad decision.
Leslie Frazier may have also interviewed for DC as we are all unsure what Patrick Graham (who went to Harvard by the way) does or doesn't do. Patrick Graham does have aspirations to be a HC one day, the question is, does he feel he is ready?
Another issue that needs to be addressed is who comes in at OC? Hardegree was way in over his head and it clearly showed. I don't see why it is so difficult to put the ball in the play makers' hands on the roster. This coaching staff really drowned out Hunter Renfrow, Davante had games where he disappeared, Jacobs ended up sitting out the last 4 games. Jakobi Meyers and Tre Tucker seemed to get the majority of looks; while the play makers barely got a sniff. Now, we will probably lose Hunter Renfrow, who has publicly said he has more than likely played his last game as a Raider.
Offensive Coordinator is going to be the most crucial coaching position of the team under Antonio Pierce. When McDaniels and company were let go; the choice came to Bo Hardegree or Edgar Bennett. The players wanted Edgar, but he turned it down. So I want to explore some serious candidates, the first 3 are my favorites:
Ken Dorsey, former Bills OC. He was fired this year, but has had the most explosive offenses in recent years with the Bills. Most in the league were surprised by his termination and feel he is a potential HC; but there must have been some beef with himself and McDermott.
Klint Kubiak, 49ers Passing Game Specialist. He does have experience with the Vikings as OC, and over a decade of coaching experience. He is a young guy who is coming up quickly, and Kyle Shanahan knows he won't be able to keep him much longer.
Eric Bieniemy is still listed as the Commanders Asst Head Coach/OC. New owners have yet decided what to do here as far as HC and current coaching staff. They just hired Adam Peters as their new GM. They haven't even asked anyone for formal interviews yet. But if they let Bieniemy go, the Raiders should interview him quickly.
As I was typing the last comment, breaking news happened. The Browns fired their Offensive Coordinator Alex Van Pelt. After what he did in Cleveland this year (though they did not win in the playoffs) add his name to the list. It wasn't his fault Flacco back-to-back pick sixes; dude has done nothing but win for the Browns and scheme with the hand that was given to him. Lost Nick Chubb, Deshaun Watson, O-lineman; and still cooked. If the Browns fall apart next season, you can bet Kevin Stefanski will be let go.
Aside from Pierce, the only two HC interviews the Raiders have conducted were with guys who were reportedly out of coaching all last year.
Hopefully, that's not the Raiders attempt at due diligence.
Jim Harbaugh has not been interviewed (nor scheduled) by the Raiders, which seems really odd to me, unless Mark Davis is done writing big checks for head coaches... which I would completely understand.
As for GM, Pierce and Kelly have a connection. Continuity is a major factor, IMO.
If Pierce is to be HC, I would expect another leak (maybe later today) followed by an announcement soon after.
I'd renew Graham's contract with an extension and pay raise! Graham is a HC candidate around the league but there are so many HC options, this might not be his time.
Interviewing OCs is critical right now. The Combine is in Feb, free agency in March, draft in April.
Lots of work to do!
I saw an interesting post on Twitter that had Ed Dodds as President of Football Operations, Champ Kelly as GM, and AP as HC. I think this would be awesome.
Is there such a position? Sounds like an overlap with the GM. Sandra Douglass Morgan is team president, and I doubt she's going anywhere.
I just hope Davis punches the boarding passes for Kelly and Pierce. It will all fall into place after that.
NY, Mark Davis has said he wants a person in charge of Football Operations that he can trust, so I would say "yes" there could be a position for this, but such position does not exist at this time.
Geez, the president of football operations is essentially the GM. Right? Is Davis looking for someone to take his spot so he doesn't have to make any more of these type decisions?
Otherwise, are we looking at a potential power struggle atop the executive chart?
I looked at a few teams' org charts.
Steelers have no such position.
49ers list John Lynch as GM and President of Football Ops.
Broncos have no such position
Chiefs have no such position
IMO, let's hire a qualified GM and leave him/her in charge of football operations.
Media reports say Kelly sat in on HC interviews yesterday. Sounds like he already got the job, unofficially.
To NY Raider and other Anon!
Al Anon-
Its' your own words that are making you look questionable!
you guys said Reggie was the man, coach D. Allen was our leader, then it was Del Rio you then pushed him aside for Gruden/ Mayock then you turned on him for the Pats' guys and you wanted them out now you're backing another regime because they won a few late season games!
Al wasn't great once upon a time he was great until he passed! see, you want to play that sorry idea "You are what your record says you are"! not anymore!
If that's the case then these regimes have been embarrassing-above average for 10-11 years under these new regimes.
So Al's Raiders '63-'11 had a 9 years slump after losing the SB they also had losing streaks in the 90's. the new Regimes '12-present have two playoff games and no division titles.
when you say the Raiders have been losing for 21 years that might be true it isn't because the new regimes have two playoff games and Al's last teams were .500(8-8). So, its' been 19 or 17 losing seasons depending on your opinions.
As for the none sense about talent please!....you have nothing to support your claims! Al lost but he had some talented rosters!
the last 2 Al's Raiders stars '10-'11: J. Campbell, C. Palmer, J. Velhdeer, R. Seymore, T. Kelly, Desmond Bryant, C. Carlisle, C-Bass, J. Ford, T. Branch, K. Wimbley, M. Bush, L. Murphy, M. Reece, Chris Johnson, J. Cooper, J. Condo and S. Lechler.
now lets look at some of the new regime stars '12-'19: M. Crosby, TP2, K. Mack, D. Carr, A. Cooper, M. Crabtree, B. Irvin, C-Wood, D. Penn, K. Osemele, J. Richard, L. Murray, J. Tuck, T.J. Carrie, Hudson, D. Tollefson, J. Hankins, E. Ingold, J. Nelson, J. Jones, K. Burnett, G. Jackson and N. Agohlor.
the new regimes have more players but Al's guys are more experienced and talented.
pro bowlers:
Al's Raiders- 5(Lechler and others)
the new regimes- 8
top NFL players(other teams wanted or could start on most teams):
Al's Raiders- 14
the new regimes- 12
Both teams had good players but Al's guys were almost a top 5 talent on many of those teams over a 9 yr period. The new regimes had very good players but not all on the same teams.
The new regimes look o.k. and had some outstanding players but didn't have enough talent they didn't have the front office to help them win they came close and spend on/ hired some good coaches but just didn't have the front office to make more moves to bring in more talent/ assistants to help them win.
Al's teams were outstanding! they had the talent some busts but very good rosters! they had pro bowlers and good veterans and did good, not great in the draft! they had some misses in free agency/ draft and some mediocre HCs' but they should've won more! they had good enough/ good HCs' and the talent to win! they kept their talent longer too! they win this argument over the new regimes! Al's teams were talented and didn't take years to find them, the new regimes had outstanding talents but not on a few teams and Al did have it. new regimes didn't keep their guys or spend on star FAs and elite HC's but Al had o.k.-good HCs' and talent- both had talent but Al's teams win the argument. they had the talent on a few teams but just lost.
NY, I think if they end up going with AP and Kelly they need a president of football operations due to the massive inexperience those two bring to the table. Also they better find an amazing offensive coordinator who can be qb whisprer as well [erhaps Jim Cadwell?
Sandy
AP maybe, but not Kelly. He was a scout with the Broncos, director of Scouting for the Bears and Assistant GM for the Raiders. That's a lot more experience than John Lynch when the 49ers hired him.
IMO, these guys have already grown into their roles. The Raiders have an entire scouting department. They are not alone, and they know exactly what they want.
Kelly said he plans to build the team from the inside out, starting with the lines, and finding a franchise QB.
He couldn't have written a better mission statement, IMHO.
I'm looking forward to it!!
If we get through Thursday and the Raiders still haven't hired AP as HC nor scheduled HC interviews with the likes of Harbaugh or Vrabel, then Mark Davis is running a clown show.
Honestly, if he hires AP (my choice for HC) he still looks weak because the HC hiring process stalled before it started.
Davis has had weeks (really months!) to sort through potential candidates and so far he's interviewed two coaches who were out of football in 2023.
And if Pierce is really the choice, why did Davis give Raiders assistant coaches a pass to go find other jobs?
This is bordering on bizarre.
The sooner Mark Davis is out of the picture for the Raiders 2024 off-season, the better!
Moe Moton reported last night that the Raiders interviewed Mike Vrabel yesterday. Jeremy Fowler has reported that Champ Kelly has been present this week during the interviews for Head Coaches for the Raiders. It was also reported that Mark Davis was seen having dinner in Vegas with Belichick on Tuesday night.
All of that to say, there are a lot of rumblings that there should be something out of the HQ today with regards to GM, or GM and HC; not sure this will be the case if Mark is still conducting interviews for HC.
Nate, I searched and can't find that anywhere. Can you provide a source, so I can read it?
Vrabel interview with Davis and the Belichick dinner.
Makes no sense that MS sports media would have no clue regarding either of these events. Seems pretty relevant.
PFT is reporting Vrabel's first "known" interview is scheduled to be today with the Chargers. Nobody in the media is reporting Vrabel was in LV, nor that he met with any Raiders officials.
Coaching interviews are pretty open. The league has rules of conducting interviews, so I imagine they have to know when interviews take place.
1. Get Harbaugh, let him build the Raiders and discount tickets.
2. hire coach Pierce and try and find some elite assistants to help him...and discount tickets!
the Al way:
find that OC type HC then, hire a GM or a top scout, then let the HC run the offense but bring in most of the talent for him but let him have say in the rest of those offensive players. use the draft and free agency to bring in top defensive talent but again, let him/ assistants have some say, if they know how to build a defense let them have most of the say but bring in some of the defensive talent too.
hire coach Pierce, then bring in experienced NFL people for the draft and free agency, try spending big on star FAs'.
bring in another defensive assistant or give Rob Ryan more work.
let Jacobs walk and draft a rookie QB in lower rounds
bring in a veteran QB
make Z. White the starter but find a young, fast RB as a back up.
try to keep D. Adams or trade him for a 1st round pick.
trade J. Meyers, T. Moehrig and Jimmy G.
have invitations with teams for trade talks, see what teams would give for CB J. Jones and T K. Miller but make sure they know its' just talk.
try to spend more to bring in star FAs'
hire elite assistants to help the coaches.
Nate75 makes up stories
At this point, Mark Davis's inaction looks like a vote of no confidence for Pierce. Of course, I have no clue what goes on behind the scenes, but Davis appears weak right now, probably allowing outside people to piss in his ear about who they think the next HC of the Raiders should be... and not Raiders Alumni who have rallied behind Pierce who, btw, remains on stand-by, choking on his pride and poise.
As I said before, the sooner Mark Davis is out of the off-season picture, the better.
Remember, Davis started his tenure as owner by giving himself a vote of no confidence. It's often said, some things never change.
Other teams are lining up interviews in rapid succession. Good or bad at their decision-making, they are performing due diligence like pros.
After 10+ weeks without a HC, and regardless of who Davis thinks he wants, he looks indecisive and weak as he stumbles into the off-season. Other than Pierce, the Raiders have only interviewed two candidates for HC, both of whom were out of football last season.
Are we just waiting for Pierce's new business cards to be printed?
Did Davis go on a bender and hit the casino scene?
FYI, the Chargers have now interviewed 11 candidates for their HC opening, including Jim Harbaugh, Mike Vrabel, David Shaw and our own Patrick Graham! If Davis waits a little longer, maybe the Chargers will request an interview with AP and round out a dozen.
After decades of failure, the Raiders still appear rudderless. It's a sad thing for me, personally.
NYR...Yes, it seems like Mark Davis still has the voices of ex-Patriots in his ear. Telling him he should do this and that. AP is the obvious choice. The players want him, most fans want him. But MD is a befuddled loser.
After 13 years of owning the Raiders, Mark Davis has apparently learned nothing...sad indeed.
So dramatic NY, Pierce is the new head coach it's official Sandy
To Ghost Ship and NY Raider,
No, he's not! MD did what fans said he should! let others run the football side of the team! most owners do but some will add their opinions or even try and help decisions on a HCs'.
You guys wanted an NFL kind of owner and you got one! he's not going to get too involved if front office people can make the decisions. But the league has say in how they work! they are gonna try and get the kind of front office they think will make us happy! not for us but to get us to spend on the Raiders!
Its' not strange or funny to you that:
MD is allegedly listening to another ex-Patriot?
Bellichick is FIRED the same year of the SB in L.V. and the Raiders are looking for a new HC?
MD keeps letting coach Pierce's assistants go?
that the currently has an ex-Patriots' QB as its' veteran starter?
No, its' not MD that is the problem its' your NFL who has say in how they work!
And its' is a good idea to wait a month or so but that's only because you're interviewing coaches for the job!
MD isn't doing wrong by waiting, he's doing wrong by listening to the NFL/ owners about and letting them have too much say in his team. they could be looking at the draft and free agency while they look/ wait for their HC.
I am so elated right now! Antonio Pierce has brought the Raiders' identity and swagger back. He's already said he is looking to replace most of the offensive staff (hopefully keeping Edgar Bennett). Hopefully he can retain Patrick Graham too.
Now announce the Dodds/Kelly combo! I'm going out on a limb here, but I think this is a return to greatness. This is reminiscent of Art Shell and Jon Gruden 1 hires by Al Davis and the energy it brought back to the team.
Davante Adams was on a podcast saying he'd be fine going after Kirk Cousins, and/or bringing in a rookie QB; and the one he likes is Daniels. I'm extremely excited about this! Just won, baby!
5-4! you put your future on a first time NFL HC! well, maybe he might do well! he could be o.k. or lead us back to 'glory'! but its' going to take big moves to bring in talent!
You needed to hire Harbaugh if he goes to LACs' will they look like Gillman/ Davis' LACs' championship teams?
now whose gonna bring in talent to help coach Pierce win?
Pierce dosen't have an Al, Rooney's, Jimmy Johnson, J. Lynch or Jerry Jones. he's got another group of inexperienced front office people and if they can
the things that coach Pierce/ front office have to handle:
the draft
a franchise QB
a veteran QB
the running game
their own free agents
D. Adams
K. Miller
the D-line
the O-line
the front office:
good assistants
an older assistant that can advise the new or old member(Raider) HC(Pierce, BB, Bienemy or Harbaugh) younger assistants and correct the DC/ OC during the game
a good marketing/ PR dept., that can connect with Raidernation.
some huge hits in the draft
some star FAs'- the team needs to spend big in free agency.
the Raiders hired coach Pierce- All right! hope he can turn this team around and take us up the NFL ladder and build a winner!
Sandy
No drama. This is important, and I say this with all due respect. You and I wanted the same thing, and neither of us got what we wanted. Sure, Pierce was my choice, but Davis didn't do his job as owner. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
At a minimum, we both expected Davis to interview Jim Harbaugh. And while I wasn't partial to Vrabel, that prospect had to be at least intriguing to Davis and some fans.
As much as I wanted Pierce to be HC, I think it's fair to say, Mark Davis did not make an informed decision.
And let's be clear, there were no secret meetings or late-night dinners. At least none that meant anything. HC interviews involve travel, meetings which last for hours (sometimes days!), and usually involve a lot of people. There are no secrets to the process, only the conversations.
Speaking for myself, I would have felt much better if Harbaugh were interviewed, especially, given the weeks which the hiring process took.
You can say I got what I wanted, but this isn't how I anticipated it would go down. I mean, WTF just happened? Davis is running a 5-6 billion organization and just made one of the biggest decisions in its history based solely on emotion.
I would be the first to admit, I don't remember any time in history when so many top-level coaches and coaching prospects were available at the same time.
Davis hired the right guy, IMO, but also managed to completely drop the ball.
Crazy!
Maybe as I learn more about the process it will make more sense. I'm happy for the Raiders, the players, the coaches and the fans. I think Pierce can be a unique force to help the Raiders win.
And what about all the conversation about hiring a GM first?
Perhaps that's just a formality. Kelly never stepped down from his role. He was directly involved in the (let's call them bogus) head coach interviews with outside coaches.
NY, maybe Harbaugh never had any interest in the Raiders because of their quarterback situation. Then again he's interviewed with Atlanta and they don't have a quarterback. I guess Mark wanted Antonio as coach all along not that the players and fans gave him much choice. What are your thoughts on quarterback who should they try and get and how Sandy
It was a solid decision! but what about personnel?
If old Raiders think he can take us back to 'glory'! then o.k. but still!
This team seems to miss out on those elite HCs' I think BB would've been a mistake and coach Saban if he was interested, would've been a big prize but expensive and a little over-hyped, with some issues and questions.
they need to have a huge draft, find a rookie or veteran QB who can win and rebuild the defense.
the Raiders have an inexperienced HC and we've been here before with coach Del Rio!
they need to find good assistants then build a good defense. maybe with some big spending in free agency and some good coaching they might play well this year.
I had posted that I believe Harbaugh might have more interest in LAC because of Herbert, or another team which might be in position to draft a franchise QB. He might also stay in Michigan... which he's already pulled once.
But, yes, where does that leave the Raiders at QB??
Raiders are on the hook for Garopolo's salary, but I'd dump him and Hoyer asap. Keep O'Connell, sign a vet and draft another QB.
This might not be a popular take, but I believe the Raiders can win with a pedestrian but savvy QB. Raiders had a chance last year to go after Baker Mayfield. The Bucs might lock him up, or he will at the very least cost a lot more this year. He's again a FA.
Kirk Cousins is interesting but I think he's overpriced. But interesting, nonetheless.
Maybe the Raiders draft Penix, Nix or JJ McCarthy.
Whoever is on the roster, it should be an open competition. Nobody should get the pre-season off. I hate that, going in cold for Week 1.
Al Anon.
Rebuild the defense?
You're a stats guy! After Pierce took over as HC in Week 9, the Raiders allowed a league-low 16.0 points per game! They were tied for 10th in the NFL in takeaways (14), tied for fifth in turnover margin (+6), and tied for third in sacks (30). Source: Raiders.com.
You don't rebuild from that. You only tweak it! Suggesting a rebuild is insane. That's exactly NOT what Pierce was hired to do!
They need to secure their own free agents like Jenkins and Butler, both of whom became starters late in the year due to their outstanding performance.
And, btw, Jack Del Rio was not an inexperienced HC. The Raiders hired him because of his experience. He coached the Jags for almost 10 years prior to joining the Raiders. He was a retread, and hardly a comparison I'd make to Pierce.
Do you intentional navigate around the facts?
I'm reading now that the Chargers are pumping out more HC interviews. They are clearly doing their due diligence.
We can only hope they screw it up anyway!
IMO, Pierce's in your face approach to winning gives us hope that the Raiders can climb back to the top of the division before Andy Reid retires. Wouldn't that be nice.
I think Harbaugh would have brought that hope as well. There were only two guys on my list. As I said a few times, Harbaugh has the pulse of the next 2-3 NFL drafts. That's huge for any team that hires him.
To NY Raider,
the Raiders
I never said coach Del Rio was inexperienced did I? If I did I'm sorry!
Del Rio was HC of the Jaguars for a while so, I'm sorry! o.k., he was the Jaguars' 2nd HC and was there for years, I knew he was fired as HC but I didn't know he was there that long.
beat Andy Reid?: yea, start using Al's ideas! that's old 80's-90's management! they draft for size and speed along with high character and they use that speed! if we're gonna beat them we'll need to be more eager to find star, ex-stars and faster-athletic players and make them sweat trying to match up with us. not just trying to build a tough, high character team.
So, will we get a new ideas, personnel peddling and exciting regime or a discipline, high character, salary cap managing and no drama regime that wants to keep the NFL/ Patriot way maybe even NYG way system? Will we spend big on free agents or get the second tier stars and others to try and win with? will we be bold in the draft or find guys that fit in a system? will we try and find FA vets, top rookies and our own vets and see if any can be stars and find athletes that can cause problems for other teams or will we get good veterans, rookies/ UDFA's good-very good but drafted for our system and cheaper vets to be coached up?
this is what we have a question mark with some good points! we don't know, will it be the same thing or did we finally find our guy/ team? if they are doing the same system or trying something new/ old Raiders ideas or other systems I hope they can turn this team around. Go Raiders! and hope they don't draft a QB in the first round! unless he is a very good one!
Though I've asked many times, you can't even tell me when you think Al Davis was last on top of his game. So I don't buy your "do it Al's way" mantra.
Antonio Pierce was hired to be AP. Go to Raiders.com and read his bio.
But more than that, AP was a motivating voice for the Raiders and, in particular, in a team meeting which players aired their grievances... you know, the meeting that got Josh McDaniels fired. Media reported that McDaniels didn't like AP's reference to the Giants win over New England (a rumor that may or may not be true).
Regardless, AP got hired because of his pure leadership ability.
Sorry, Al. Let's do it AP's way for a while. See what happens!
One read on Pierce, he brings opportunity to the Raiders.
Opportunity for everyone to keep their jobs. Players, coaches, etc. Not saying everyone will or should, but there's no dismantling of the roster that's about to happen.
A great point was made earlier too, free agents are going to want to play for Pierce, perhaps even at lower salary. Remember, NV has no state income tax! That's big if you make NFL money (certainly, a selling point for recruitment).
Pierce has a network of personal consultants that he trusts. AP seems like someone who takes in as much info as possible, then processes that info to make decisions. He's pragmatic. That's why "Al's way" will not work. Being pragmatic in 2024 might be the opposite of "Al's way" from the 70s and 80s.
There are many opportunities for the Raiders to take advantage.
Hopefully, they do!
To NY Raider,
Al was last on top of his game from well, about '08-'11! oh yea, he was still doing outstanding things and he even built one/ some of the best rosters and front offices in the '00's and that the 9 year slump made no sense. he was still relevant in the '00's!
and BTW...if you seriously believe that 31 other teams were better than his over that 9 year slump! then you really need to just look at the way you guys trip over his ex-assistants and see maybe you don't want to admit he still can have an impact on the Raiders today.
The Raiders should've but somehow, didn't make the playoffs over that period!
in the late 00s' Al had upset the pro sports world and media with law suits, talking to media about other owners and helping the NFL players fight the owners/ NFL's new CBA.
he was on top of his game by building a talented team and IMO...was as good if not better than every unit of the Chargers and except SD's QBs who may've been the best group in the NFL in the '00-'10s'(Rivers and Brees). he did his job build an outstanding team but it just lost.
he had some outstanding coaching hires proving he knows how to hire good HCs'. coach Jackson, Turner and Kiffin were outstanding- Jackson an top OC who got the O going, Turner another good OC who took SD to the playoffs and Kiffin immature and in a bad situation in Oakland and another top OC. you have this thing about coach Turner yet, SD dominated the AFC West for awhile.
Al wasn't on top of his game?:
he was on top of his game by being one of the best judges of assistant coach talent ever! he must have been very good since a lot of NFL teams and you guys want some of them(Harbaugh, Musgrave and Shaw). BTW...its' true, a team may not teach an assistant much but maybe they got advise from him and maybe, other legends visiting Raiders' HQ. so maybe guys wanted to visit or work for him and learn a few things or get some good advise.
the Raiders had three winning seasons and were the best team in the AFC in '02.
he kept the special teams the overall, all-time best continuing to find pro bowl punters/ coverage units for the 70's-'11.
he was the guy who helped the players fight the NFL/ owner's new CBA.
he helped NFLPA boss G. Upshaw fight the new CBA and helped the players get organized to take their issues to the owners for more benefits and contract issues. he was doing this while in a slump.
so do you need more info and history to show he knew what he was doing and did something even during that slump?
Wow NY!, you sure have some strong arguments but are you just trying to say its' time to move on from a once winning culture or do you want to show a good front office could've done the same things as Al's front office? well, I hope the new regime proves me wrong, maybe they can finally show should move on and can build a modern winning team.
Man, you're just winging it, aren't you? You have no idea what a good team is!
2008 was when Al fired Lane Kiffin. That was an absolute low-point in his career. Even your nonsensical posts can't hide from that.
2008 and 2009 were back-to-back 5-11 seasons, coming off a 4-12 season. The Raiders were completely lost during that period. No leadership! No direction!
Then Cable took over, and Davis immediately undermined him by elevating Jackson, who was a complete screwball.
Of all the periods you could have picked, you selected that one?
Please!
I'm calling out BS on the GM hiring process right now. The Raiders three top guys are Champ Kelly, Tom Telesco or Ed Dobbs.
Telesco has the most experience, but he just got fired by the Chargers, along with head coach Brandon Staley, after the Raiders torched them for 63 pts. Telesco was there 11 years and failed badly.
Why is he even a choice? He needs to cool off (and smarten up!) somewhere for a year or two.
Dobbs is an assistant GM with the Colts and may have less experience than Kelly, who's been in that role then elevator to interim GM with the Raiders.
Kelly and Pierce already have a working relationship!
Is Mark Davis still trying to screw this up?
It's the same problem with OC. Lots of candidates already have failure(s) on their resumes.
Kelly is up and coming and has stated his plan for the Raiders, and he fits with AP. They have 10 weeks of working closely together.
You can bank AP wants Kelly!
As I said, the sooner Mark Davis is out of the picture, the better!
Thank you Mark Davis, for finally, officially, hiring AP. I am already fired up for next season. Also fired up for the draft. can't wait to see the type of real football players AP will be looking to add.
NYR...please do not overlook O'connell as the starting Qb next year. He was the 2nd best rookie Qb last year after Stroud. O'connell was improving as year went along, especially after AP was promoted. Look at Jordan Love, who went from terrible, to great, all in the span of 10 games. Young Qb's need time to learn. i would say O'connell has more upside than guys like Mayfield, Cousins, or Minshew.
Ghost Ship, you just said the quiet part out loud. Without being that specific, I've posted several times that I want an open competition at QB.
2024 QB Roster: O'Connell, mid-level vet (don't overspend!), and a quality draft QB (Nix?). Let the best man win.
I agree, O'Connell got noticeably better as his season progressed. Most importantly, he secured the football, throwing something like 8 TDs to 0 INTs in his last 4 games. That's a winning formular with a sound running game and a solid defense.
Both Jordan Love and Baker Mayfield botched their team's chances at a comeback by throwing unforced INTs. Neither QB was in 4th down..., and both QBs had time. Neither QB is worthy until they prove they can secure the ball in those situations.
For all that's been said about Derek Carr, the guy had ice in his veins when it came to last drive comebacks. Unfortunately, he had so many chances because the defense always put him in that position. That's changing under Pierce and Crosby!
Davis overthinks and underperforms. Then he's too dumb to see it.
My problem with his leading GM candidate is that failure already lines his resume. Rumor is the Raiders are close to hiring Telesco for GM because Davis doesn't want to pair a rookie HC with a rookie GM.
Here are the facts:
"Telesco served as General Manager of the Chargers for 11 seasons, hired three head coaches and had two playoff wins. The Chargers were 84-95 under his watch."
That sucks! And he had a franchise QB.
Champ Kelly is a fresh start at GM. He and Pierce already have a working relationship. His mission statement was to build from the lines out and get a franchise QB. He has an entire scouting department working for him.
This doesn't have to be so difficult.
NY, Telesco has put together some very talented rosters and done a good jobb in the first round, Slater, Derwin James, Hebert etc. You can not say that about the Raiders. Don't make it like Champ is some proven commodity that Davis passed on he has proven nothing in Chicago or in his short stint with the Raiders.
Sandy
Really not understanding this GM hire.
The problem with the Chargers is they could not build a good defense to go along with their franchise Qb.
They blew an historic big lead, and lost a playoff game to Jacksonville. They gave up 63 point to Raiders this year.
Now Mark Davis is asking Tom Telesco, who in 11 years could not build a good defense, to build one in Vegas.
Not following the thinking here on this one.
IMO, it's business as usual for Davis. Hiring AP was great, but Davis can't break the cycle which he continually tries to outsmart his past failures.
The difference between Kelly and Telesco isn't just experience, it's record. Telesco's record is awful. He screwed up the Chargers and now wants a chance with the Raiders. One word. Ugh!
Kelly, by most accounts, is up and coming. He had a plan for the Raiders that he made publicly known and IMO is the right one. He also would have had a full management team and staff of scouts. Also, we can be pretty certain Pierce wanted Kelly. So there's that.
IMO Telesco is more of Dave Zeigler. Certainly, no better. Davis's reasoning was he didn't want to hire rookie HC and GM, when that's exactly what he should have done. Even with less experience, Kelly ran neck and neck in the decision process. AP and Kelly could have grown together and made a powerhouse combo.
If nothing else, Kelly was an opportunity to step away from business as usual for Mark Davis, and perhaps break the cycle... one which Telesco is the poster boy, IMO.
I hope I'm wrong!
NY I am not saying Telesco is the second coming of Ron Wolf but what in the world has Champ Kelly ever done that you can point to?
Ghost, I think if you put Mack, Bosa, Derwin James, Casey Heyward on a defense and they dont perform that is on the coach not the GM.
Sandy
Sandy, I think you're overlooking the fact that Telesco handpicked Brandon Staley, and 2-3 failed HCs before him. It's Telesco's record that concerns me.
Kelly has a resume. He didn't just land in the Raiders exec offices by accident, and he's not a previously failed retread. I'm outside looking in, but, IMO, he was very active bringing in players during the second half of the season, including guys that contributed. His mission statement was clear!
Also, there was a working relationship between AP and Kelly.
Telesco and Staley hit rock bottom and Mark Davis was right there picking up the pieces. That should concern all of us, IMO.
JT The Brick is suggesting Davis picked Telesco because of his plan to trade up for a QB.
That makes me nervous. He needs to be guess-right, especially, if we give up significant draft capital, which we will need to do.
I'm torn on QBs because I think Nix and Penix Jr. will be available if the Raiders want to draft a QB, and they don't need to give up anything.
I'm not concerned about Telesco, nor his job that he did in San Diego for several reasons. First, he will not be picking the Head Coach; that position is solidified. Second, he will not be in charge of contracts, that belongs to Tom Delaney, SVP, Director of Football Operations. Third, unless he takes a job elsewhere as GM, Champ Kelly is still under contract with the Raiders and will help in the role he did under Ziegler. Fourth, Telesco is going to do what he does best, work with the coach to bring in talent at positions needed.
A lot of things didn't work out for him with the Chargers, but it wasn't for a lack of talent. The Chargers are a team that relies more on analytics than coaching situations. The Chargers have great talent on the team, but they do not coach player development, which is a big reason why I think they struggle. I also believe this is why we have struggled for so long as well. But AP is coaching player development, and has been coaching situations, rather than by analytics. I think this is going to be the difference; and I think with the ability to evaluate talent like Telesco has, he will be successful in this environment.
With that said, if Kelly was still under contract, then why not give him a shot? The rumor is he was unwilling to try and trade up for a QB. Not sure if that is true or not, but I hope we are able to keep him because he is another who is incredible at evaluating talent. Just win, baby!
Nate, IMHO, that's a bit shortsighted. First, Delaney now works for Telesco. Right? Second, unless Mark Davis gave specific instruction to retain Kelly, Telesco will pick his own staff. Kelly was assistant GM. I doubt that will stick.
As for AP already being in place, what if Pierce stubbles out of the gate and Telesco decides he wants a change, will you still be supporting him?
If we've learned anything, nothing is as it appears to be. Odds are always against the Raiders.
At a minimum, Telesco needs to be better than he's been. That's a big ask.
what if Pierce "stumbles"....
Note to self, read before posting.
NY, maybe Telesco was hired because he was willing to retain people. Mark Davis wanted to hire Dodds when he hired McDaniels; but Ziegler and McDaniels were a package deal. Mark was looking for someone to rebuild scouting and football operations for the second time.
I think Mark realizes there is no need to tear everything down again; and I don't think he is not about to allow someone to once again, blow everything up. Front office, scouting, football operations. Telesco may be the only one willing to work with that; and Kelly has GM offers, but hasn't taken them, so maybe he is willing to stay.
Yes, Delaney works for Telesco, but he is in charge of structuring players' contracts; which he does so in conjunction with Mark Davis and Telesco. Telesco may want big contracts, but Mark is financially savvy; and I don't think he is going to allow things to go overboard. All-in-all, the ask to be better doesn't just fall on Telesco, but the whole organization. I think Mark is, and continues to make the right steps to be better as an organization. Just win, baby.
Also, Albert Breer is reporting that the Raiders have scheduled to interview Kingsbury later this week. I think he is a bigger risk than Telesco. I feel this way because Kingsbury is all about system, and if AP is about player development; this is where Kingsbury lacks and lacks significantly. He may be a great offensive X and O guy; but is worse than McDaniels when it comes to development. I still like the possibility of Zac Robinson as OC.
Mark Davis promoted AP from LB coach to head coach.
Why not simply promote Kelly from asst. GM to GM ? It's not that big of a stretch, and AP and Kelly seemed to be on the same page.
Nate, that sounds more like wishful thinking than reality. Kelly was clearly the status quo choice for continuity. The fact, as you say, Kelly is getting other interest for GM only confirms what I said about him being up and coming.
Truth is, we don't know, and may never know why or under what conditions Telesco was hired.
As I said, I'm on the outside looking in. But if I'm telling you what I believe right now, it's that Mark Davis is trying too hard... and he may be outsmarting himself in the process. Just like pre-snap penalties, Davis has been his own worst enemy since taking over the team.
He should have just removed the interim tags on Pierce and Kelly, who represent his best instincts and smartest decisions so far as owner of the Raiders.
Hopefully, Davis is NOT involved in the OC search and decision-making.
Champ Kelly is under contract, the same as Patrick Graham, MD won't stop them from interviewing for advanced roles elsewhere which by league rules is mandatory,but has block lateral movement interviews for PG which I think shows he would like to keep both PG and CK, maybe it helps negotiate their salaries going forward. From what I heard on the news about the hiring of the new GM from LA is that MD was shy about pairing a rookie GM with a rookie HC and that makes sense with the draft this year being vitaly important to the success to this regime. looks like he would like to keep CK in the role that he already fills.
And of course MD will be involved with the OC search just as long as he listens to the right advisors is all we can really hope for.
Aussie, Kelly is (or was) assistant GM. If I'm Telesco, I'd want my own guy as assistant GM. Are you suggesting Mark Davis actually block Telesco from selecting his own staff?
Maybe Kelly is his choice. I have no idea.
But if all you said is true, then Mark Davis might be doing his best Al Davis impersonation yet.
New take is up.
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