Draft Night Thread
I'm a little late to the game, but pound it here for all of your draft night takes. We need a QB!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
I'm a little late to the game, but pound it here for all of your draft night takes. We need a QB!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
166 Comments:
Stunned is probably my first impression. Bowers would need to be viewed as a franchise player to carry that much clout as "best player available" over so many positions of need. The Raiders had their pick of the best D players in college.
Has Telesco already jumped the shark?
So, they drafted a TE last year and pass on an elite CB today? so now we know they'll pick an OT(2nd pick) and miss out on more top CBs! Its' not complaining well, it is but, seeing a con job continue its' mediocrity! Now, watch how fans defend the pick, media hypes the pick, the Raiders call it a great pick and how haters laugh at the pick, critic fans/ critic media criticizes the pick and how they all argue over the pick!..., you may still like the pick and see big future but might have some questions/ see some experience issues with this new regime.
Raidernation, really!? when we needed an OT and CB? We could've even picked a DT or DE!
Wow! So, why Bowers? to copy S.F., K.C. and S.D.? to get score more points? To have two top TEs' in some schemes or help the QB get rid of the ball quicker?
Wow! well, we passed on some elite players and we still need to build a good D. We may've missed out on some top defensive help.
And now I have to look at other Anon and NY Raiders' posts defending the Bowers pick.
To Raidertake,
Why did they do it?
Is the some of MD's Patroits friend trying to get the Raiders to build the same Bellichick system with star TEs(Gronk, Hernandez)?
Is Tellesco trying to bring the SD Chargers' success to L.V.(Winslow, Gates, Sievers, )?
Are they trying to show K.C. they can get a star TE too...and hopefully score like K.C. too?
Do they want to use a cheaper QB vet or rookie picked lower and feel a TE can make it easier to move the offense by not being under pressure waiting on WRs' and getting rid of the ball to a star TE?
Why did they do this?
I am surprised! and this time though it was an outstanding player, it looks like a huge surprise and reach! When they have issues on their D and don't have LBs' and CBs' they decide to draft a star TE!
L.A. took Alt when they may already have a top LT, Denver picked B. Nix and Atlanta picked M. Pennix after signing Mariota other than that everybody has a very good pick. But Denver sometimes builds good defenses and again, the Falcons have a veteran QB but the Raiders don't have a good D yet and again, passed on some outstanding CBs'.
To answer the question, I have no idea.
It doesn't seem to matter the year or the coach or the GM, the Raiders always seem to find a way to reach. It's astonishing.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Brugler in The Athletic: "Bowers is an explosive pass catcher who creates mismatches all over the field with speed, ball skills and competitive edge. He has NFL star potential in the mold of George Kittle, if he lands with a play caller prepared to feature his unique and versatile talent."
RT, it's no reach the guy is 21, I watched him dominate the sec he will be a pro bowler. Sandy
Wow! It's a headscratcher for sure. The Raiders had their pick of top defensive players in the country, so picking a TE after drafting Michael Mayer last year makes no sense.
However, if I'm looking for positive spin, here's what I found. Bowers was a consensus best player on at least some boards, not something the Raiders typically do. Think: Alex Leatherwood, Henry Ruggs, Clelin Ferrill, or some of Al's guys like Darrius Heyward Bey. Not only were those guys NOT the best available, they weren't the best at their respective positions.
But that doesn't totally explain, nor justify the Bowers pick, IMO.
The Saints took the Raiders OT right after the Raiders "fumbled" their pick, and country's best CBs didn't even surface until mid-round.
Bowers needs to be almost Gronk level to make sense.
If there's a saving grace, here it is. The draft is loaded with CB talent. It's tough to get past the first 2-3 CBs who are sure-starters, but media analysts still have lots of CBs on their boards through the top-150 players.
And the Raiders still need a smart pick at RT. We need to stay focused!
At the end of the day (yesterday!), Telesco is either a genius or he blew it with his very first pick. I guess if you're not sure about Bowers, go look at his highlight reel. There's little doubt that Minshew just got better. But was that the right call for the Raiders?!
Bowers is an amazing TE, and with Mayer, we will probably run a lot of 2 TE sets. However, they left a lot on the board. Quinyon Mitchell, Troy Fautanu, and Terrion Arnold. To be honest, the last real worthy 1st round pick we made was Charles Woodson. Such a bizaare draft. The first 14 picks were offense, no defense, 6 of the top 12 were QBs. A lot of 2nd Round talent picked in the first, especially on offense. Throw your mocks out.
I dont know why it published me as Raider Take, but the last one is Raider Nate 75
So now that the first round destroyed us, here is what we could end up with next. But as we saw, don't hold your breath.
Rnd 2: Cooper DeJean, CB/S, Iowa. We still have a chance to pick him. But he may go off the board early. I worry about the Bills selecting him with the first pick in the 2nd. If he is gone, my pick is OL. Either Roger Rosengarten who played both RT and RG for Washington; or Kingsley Suamataia who could play both RT or LT out of BYU. We may even have the chance to get Johnny Newton, DT, Illinois here too.
Rnd 3-77: James Williams, S/OLB, Miami. NOt sure he will be here either, and if not, then we go with Chop Robinson OLB/DE Penn St, or Zak Zinter, OG, Michigan.
Rnd 4: Joe Milton, QB, Tennessee. I think he or Michael Pratt (QB, Tulane) is our pick here.
Rnd 5: Layden Robinson, RG, TX A&M
Rnd 6: Marcus Harris, DT, Auburn. I flipped this pick with Miyan Williams. With the way this draft is going, there is not telling, he may even go in the 2nd round. HA!
Rnd 7-223: Miyan Williams, RB, Ohio St
Rnd 7-229: Khalid Duke, OLB/DE, Kansas.
Because the Raiders chose to indulge in drafting a new toy where a hole clearly did NOT exist in their roster, IMO, they need to hit it out of the park in Day 2. That means filling roster needs at CB and OT, probably in that order.
Coverage LB has long-been a problem for the Raiders and I don't see them solving it now. If they try, they will likely fail, as they have so many times.
Stay focused, Raiders!
Bowers is a bargain at 13, he is a pro bowl talent. TE may not be a positon of huge need but weapons on offese is. In case you guys forgot the minessota game or the last 3 quarters of the KC game where they could not complete a pass. There was no QB to take (hopefully Rattler is picked) and I feel good about taking a potential star versus a lesser player of need at CB or OL. Not saying Arnold or Mitchell is Celin Ferrell but Bowers is way more of a sure thing than those two. Finally WR/TE/pass catcher I would have ranked as third area of need after CB/OL. Meyer looks decent but not great, Adams is a superstar but may be gone in a year or two given his contract., Jakobi is good but after that there is only Tucker who is not a starter so the pass catcher room is rather thin. Bowers pretty quickly becomes the second bes tskill playe ron the team behind Adams.
Sandy
Yeah, 'reach' is probably the wrong term.
I know it's different GMs, but two of our last top three picks dating back to last year are Tight Ends. When you think of the Raiders, do you think, we just need more great tight ends.
Just seems like more of a luxury/accessory.
Great player, likely great value from a draft position standpoint, but is it a great fit for where the Raiders are at? Not sure.
Anon, why are you so enamored with Spencer Rattler? The dude is not good! He couldn't win the starting job at Oklahoma, so he threw a fit and transfered to South Carolina. He doesn't know how to read a defense as he throws it up and hopes for the best. This is seen in his passing % and TD to INT stats. He has made 1313 attempts, completed 900 for a 68.5% rating in his career. He has 77 TDs vs 32 INTs. He has had a lazy work ethic in high school and college, and will bomb in the NFL. He is the equivalent of Johnny Manziel without the hype or wins. Spencer Rattler is the same dude as Phil Jurkovec (809 att, 473 comp, 58.4%, 43 TDs, 20 INTs) or Kedon Slovis, BYU (1534 att, 989 comp, 64%, 80 TDs, 39 INTs). QB is all about wins right? At least that is what we were told with Derek Carr. If QB is all about wins, then stay away from these 3 QBs.
Jordan Travis (1078 att, 678 comp, 62.9%, 61 TDs, 27 INTs) is better prospect than Rattler, and you still have Joe Milton (649 att, 400 comp, 61.6% 37 TDs, 11 INTs), Michael Pratt (1200 att, 729 comp, 60.75%, 90 TD, 26 INT), and Carter Bradley (1027 att, 637 comp, 62%, 66 TDs, 20 INTs) are better suited than Rattler. They have the wins under their belts, Michael Pratt and Joe Milton have more upside and are more NFL ready than Rattler. Stay away!
Our OC play calling calls for a lot of 2 TE sets, and Bowers was the number 2 ranked player in the whole draft according to ESPN so at 13 it wouldn’t be a reach but unexpected. It’s not like we picked a kicker :) with some of the reaches in front of us on QB and OL I’m glad we didn’t follow suit for a reach…tho my heart was hoping for DL or CB… but can’t hate on a stud pick.
I'm confused by the Bowers pick but not upset. He's a baller and having two TEs as good as Bowers and Mayer will create opportunity for the Raiders.
2nd Round OL (C/G) looks like another baller. These guys are both reported with toughness that AP covets.
Raiders had to watch as QBs rolled off the board in the first round, then there was a run on CBs before their pick in the second round.
If Powers-Johnson is plug-n-play at either G spot, I'd concede the Raiders had a pretty start to this draft. PJ could also be the Raiders future at center. That's where he excelled in college.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon-
We got a good OL but not a RT(?). I can't get too down on these picks but they are looking like they're not going to worry about the D but build a decent O and look for their QB, RB and RT later.
The Raiders are getting good players just the wrong ones so far. Oh no!, this was an outstanding pick! but we could've found a good RT, DT or CB too.
BTW Aussie, teams have drafted kickers in the 1st round and had success.
Ray Guy is a HOF'er.
C-Bass is one of the best kickers in NFL history.
Saints didn't do so well with Texas U., kicker drafted in the 1st round in the late 70's but Al wasn't afraid to draft a kicker in the 1st round.
If we could just find a QB that could get this team moving!- Hey, what about TP2,
The one thing being ignored is our D! If you think Bowers and Minshew are gonna worry K.C. or outscore Denver you're not looking at the AFC West! the Raiders are building the O up but they aren't doing much for the defense. We didn't pick a D player yet and we really are hurting at CB and LB. We didn't bring in a lot of free agents except Wilkins and he has to be a 3 down player like Crosby because the Raiders didn't bring in veterans or draft DL to let these guys rest and come in on passing downs. They have to win with D if they're going to make a playoff run. They need to find some good D players while they're building their O, they can take some picks for the D too.
Is our new O lineman a Jim Otto doppelgänger ??? :)
No, there are no Otto's, Upshaws, Shells or Wisnewski's in this draft! maybe-, maybe not I won't say some of these guys won't become stars. Maybe some of them will be HOF'er some may be pro bowlers who knows? But I do know the Raiders should try to find the DBs', DL's and special teams that they are famous for. Maybe they can win more games and motivate players if they try rebuilding those units they are doing very good with the OL!
Whats with the HBCU and the NFL!? is it me or has the NFL totally started ignoring it? I think there's some elite players in the HBCU and for the first time in over 50 years the NFL is completely ignoring it! Wow! do you think something is wrong with the HBCU!?
Raidernation
Steelers 70's
K.C. 60s-70s'
Bears 70s'-80s'
Raiders 60s'
Lions 70s'
Raidernation! don't you think that if every other team in the NFL ignores the HBCU that the Raiders should steal the gold and gems?
What is going on anyway? They don't think any NFL level guys are there?
Many good HBCU players are being ignored and going to the UFL and CFL instead because NFL teams aren't drafting them! go ahead NY and other Anon! tell me its' talent and other things. when has ANY college division in American history EVER had only one guy drafted in one draft? And I've seen a lot of divisions in their thin/ worst of times when it came to pro talent over the years but NEVER had any of them only had one player drafted(the Patriots drafted a HBCU DB after all other players weren't drafted) something IS going on!
Sticking with big guys in the trenches in Rd 3. Raiders need to add bodies to the DB room. LB and possibly a RB and/or WR.
Unless the Raiders are very high on a sleeper QB, there's no reason to waste a draft pick.
They are stacked with depth on the DL and should run with that for at least one year.
I am hoping they land Rattler today
Sandy
Raiders grab two big and physical IOL yesterday. Both excellent grabs that no draft "expert" had on the boards at their selection. Even though I don't consider myself an "expert" I did not think they'd be there either. I'm telling you now, we have 3 players drafted that PFF has graded 95, 92, and 90 respectively. Bowers will easily be an All-Pro. A good comparison to his style of play is Tony Gonzalez.
Jackson Powers-Johnson is reminiscent of Richie Incognito, and DJ Glaze is considered a steal because of his versatility. I'm not too familiar with him outside of that. He does have a good amount of potential to be excellent in the League. 3rd Round on are going to be guys who need development work.
Raiders just selected Decamerion Robinson (CB, Miss St). He ran a 4.34 40 Yard in the combine (3rd fastest), he is 6'2, 188 lbs. He will make it difficult for tight window passes because of his size and length. This is a good pick here.
In non-related football news, and another proud dad moment. Last night, my son's school played for the District Championship against our rival. Caleb came in to relief pitch in the 2nd with 2 out, bases loaded, and already down 5-0. He pitched the rest of the game, and at one point was down 7-1. Our team rallied back and won 9-7 and his school is District Champs for the first time in 13 years for baseball (Karnes City High School, TX 3A, Region 4, District 27). If you know anything about Region 4 in Texas Baseball, it is one of the toughest in the country. A couple teams we will probably face are Sinton and Hondo. Sinton had 3 players drafted by the MLB last season, and one is already in AAA. Hondo currently has the #3 pitcher in the nation.
My son's stat line from last night: 5-1/3 Innings, 3 hits, 2 BBs, 13 K's, 2 unearned runs. He is a sophomore who throws 82-83 MPH. Like I said, proud dad moment.
Arthur Whittington, RB, died at 68 years old.
A little small for a RB he was a very good special team'er and had a chance to play in the '80 super bowl against the Eagles. He played either before or with Eric Dickerson and Craig James at SMU. He was drafted two or three year after the Raiders super bowl season '76.
He was never a starter but was one of the best special team'ers on the team in the 70's. He had some good runs as a back up RB but I don't know if he ever started a game. He later was seen on the sidelines maybe being a assistant coach in the 80s'. He was a very good player for the Raiders and probably one of those guys Al liked because of special teams talent/ help maybe Al thought he was a star college RB- maybe too small to start in NFL but might have speed- and might be another Tony Dorsett or Joe Washington. He was on their '80 super bowl team.
RIP,
Arthur Whittington.
Have to say, I was pleased that the Raiders showed discipline and didn't reach for a QB that they didn't feel gave them an upgrade. QBs rolled off the board before the Raiders had a pick, and I'd guess they made a reasonable effort to trade up, but the price was too much.
They grabbed the kid from Georgia for sheer value, then remained focused on the roster through the remainder of the draft. I have no idea how good each pick was, so I can't opine on the quality of any single pick but, as a whole, it looks like the Raiders attacked their needs.
Of course, time will tell but Telesco gave himself a save by drafting a baller first.
Also, Powers-Johnson sounds badass. I think I heard or read (grabbing any media I could get during the draft) that he didn't give up a single sack in college, and that he blows strength measurements off the charts.
It's a little fuzzy for me after that. I only see position choices, which look measured.
One more observation, the Raiders signed a lot of undrafted players immediately after the draft. That's the fastest turnaround on that process that I can remember. The group is heavy in the trenches (no pun intended) but includes a QB and three WRs.
Somebody almost always rises up the ranks to make the roster from undrafted players.
Raiders QBs
Recently signed undrafted FA QB Carter Bradley is son of Gus Bradley, Raiders former DC.
Bradley, the QB, comes with notable football pedigree.
I imagine some fans are upset with the last regime for letting Carr get away.
Others are upset with current regime for not being more aggressive in free agency and/or the draft.
Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins were there for the taking, as well as Justin Fields, who Getsy coached... but has been demoted to backup role.
Kirk Cousins is the most overpaid QB in the NFL. Wilson would have been a good deal, but was he a smart choice? Meh!
Raiders are at least partly the victim of circumstance. The draft just did not fall to the Raiders. There's nothing we can say to change that perspective. 2-3 second-tier QBs were already off the board by the Raiders pick at #13. And it would have been stupid to mortgage the future unless they were completely confident in their choice.
So we're stuck with Minshew and O'Connell for at least one year. IMO, with a solid defense, either QB is capable to leading the Raiders into the playoffs. That's more than Derek Carr did for us, but he did not have a solid defense... probably still doesn't.
Clearly, QB will need to be re-evaluated and possibly revisited in FA/draft again next year!
NY,
I am excited about the UDFA Carter Bradley. I think this kid is going to surprise people.
At the same time, I am also glad the Raiders did not go after a QB in the draft. Watching AOC's college film from a few years ago, you can tell that he was hindered by Josh McDaniels and Bo Hardegree; and wasn't able to utilize his talents.
He was a mobile QB in college, and did not leave the pocket last season with the Raiders. Will that change this year? I hope so. I hope they game plan to his strengths. To be honest, AOC in college looked like an early Derek Carr before he broke his twig against the Colts. We saw his ability to throw down field last season, but that was about it. Mayer did not do him any favors last season as a TE, and I'm hopeful with Bowers and Mayer being on the field at the same time to open up opportunities that will open up other routes (Davante long).
A lot of people think Minshew is going to tear the starting job away from AOC. I think he will give good competition, but if they utilize and gameplan to AOC's strength; everyone will see a different AOC from last season.
AOC was not a mobile qb in college not even close. Sandy
He wasn't Randall Cunningham or Michael Vick; but he wasn't a statue in the pocket like Josh McDumdum or Bo Hardegree wanted him to be either. He moved around, he did rush the ball some, and he extended the pocked and plays with his legs.
Grades for AFC West and NFC West:
Raiders have three rookie OLs and bought in a veteran OG in free agency.
Raiders vs. Denver: The Broncos had a great draft! why? they added to their pass rush and secondary! After trading for QB Z. Wilson(NYJ) they drafted B. Nix(Oregon).
They drafted DE J. Ellis and added some DBs in the draft! They found WR T. Frankin(Oregon) who may be a steal and a star and that could help the offense a lot. They also, drafted some DBs and that may help them too.
Coach Peyton will let Wilson prove himself but if he doesn't win the job he'll use Nix. But the Broncos depend on defense!
The Broncos will use rookie Ellis with their underrated pass rush to challenge L.V.'s young OL! L.V.'s QBs will need time to find their receivers. Broncos' usually have good cover LBs so it might not be easy for L.V. TEs' to get open. But Bowers might be a huge problem for them. L.V. didn't draft DLs or cover LBs but did get CBs'. they'll have to take on Broncos' receivers. Broncos have young receivers so L.V. may have a chance against them. Raiders DL will have to shut down the run if L.V. wants to beat the Broncos.
LAC: They rebuilt their OL too but only needed to fix one postion(RT). They will have to depend on D if they're gonna make the playoffs. They drafted L. McConkey but didn't really go shopping for a load of WRs.
The Raiders are almost a complete O and the LAC defense is good not great but they have an outstanding pass rush. The Raiders' D would have a chance with the Chargers rebuilding their receiving area. I think L.V. has the edge over LACs.
K.C.: they have the stars on O and usually whip up on L.V. but they are rebuilding their OL. but with their talent and rookie WR with track speed it looks like K.C. is again a SB contender. The Raiders' would have to have a big time pass rush to stop this O. The K.C. D has holes but still they have pass rushers and going against a rebuilt young OL they have a good chance to beat L.V.
The new Raiders again did a good job in the draft but they didn't get another DL and top DBs to help win games. So, it'll take a O that OL is jelling and the starting QB has a huge year. Their pass rush/ D will have it easier if the O can do that if not, the D will have to win for them if they want to win the division. With K.C.'s O, and LACs' and Denver's D it will be tough for L.V. to make the playoffs in '24.
Minshew and O'Connell with battle it out, and the best man wins. My money is on Minshew, but I only want what's best for the team.
Bigger concern, for me, is that we have no idea what impact Luke Getsy brings to the competition. Being honest, I'm concerned about Getsy's playcalling ability. The Bears did not have a good offense with him calling plays. We can dissect the causes but I'm pretty sure Getsy deserves some blame.
The Raiders ability to win games rests mostly on Getsy's shoulders. The defense will figure out their role.
"The new Raiders again did a good job in the draft but they didn't get another DL and top DBs to help win games."
Huh?
Crosby, Wilkins, Koonce, Wilson, Jenkins, Adams are all locks. Which one of these guys are you desperate to replace?
You would draft early round DL for depth?? Did you not see that the Raiders signed 5 defensive linemen after the draft?
Of all the positions you might think the Raiders "need...," DL is perhaps the least needy.
AOC college rushing stat 95 rushes for negative 500 yards. Sandy
Ummmmm.....one year(half year/ few game) wonders haven't been winners for the Raiders!
M. Koonce: he finally broke out but that was late in the season. I hope he has grown and is getting better but those 8 sacks may be just a flash and not something that will keep going. They could've tried to get an extra pick and picked another DE/ edge like J. Ellis(Utah) he may be a star for Denver, Khalid Duke(Kansas), V. Booker even one of the Murphy brothers(Gabriel and his brother, UCLA) to help M. Crosby and Wilkins.
Wilson: hasn't shown a lot, another player that came on late in the season. I think I heard he had an injury? he doesn't have to be a star, just pressure the QB! but we've had issues drafting CBs and DE/ edge rushers so we'll have to see if Wilson can get better this year, he has the talent and if the Raiders made him play with an injury they're showing the same neglect and lack of good management of players that the new regimes did.
Jenkins?: a good player but the Raiders once again passed on DTs' in the draft when this team hasn't had a lot of success finding a star player. Jenkins has played well but it would've been huge if they'd drafted a pass rushing DT like Hall or Newton.
DT? Benedict College's L. Denelus had 48 sacks in the HBCU, B. Fisk or Hall(Ohio St.) might make the DL even better.
CB?: T. Franklin(Den.), X. Worthy(K.C.) and L. McConkey(LACs) all are rookie star WRs' and the Raiders decided to draft an elite TE, that's great but they could've had a top OT or elite CB! now, its up to the DL to help us win because we have young vets and now, a lot of rookie DBs to learn to play in the NFL! We will need our pass rush to be dominant this year to beat the teams in our division.
NY, really? you think this team is spending and well built? dude...they made good moves then make strange/ questionable ones. they have stars but its' a lot of gaps and lack of depth that is the issue and you need to stop trying to make this a small project to rebuild this team and defending Raiders' conservative/ tight wallet and slow moving front office
You act like every move the Raiders make has to be quintessential (and equally ridiculous, that every move Al made was quintessential). That's absurd on its face.
Like every team, the Raiders draft board was fluid. They were competing with 31 other teams in free agency and the draft. Besides their top pick (for value!), every pick was a critical need on their roster. Their undrafted free agents bolstered their need for depth at key positions, like D-line.
As for the current D-line, I seem to remember you were pimpin' Jerry Tillery as the next coming of Aaron Donald. Tillery sucks! If he was any good, he'd still be a Raider. Jenkins and Adams took over for Nichols and Tillery last year, and the Raiders D-line improved immensely.
You still don't get it!
You're busy looking for shiny objects. That's not who the Raiders are anymore.
Another shiny object. That's exactly what has ailed the Raiders for decades. I'm sure Hayden was a good kid, but he had just experienced a life-threatening injury and the Raiders selected him with their #1 pick, without full knowledge of his injury or understanding if he could make a full recovery.
We could go through Raiders draft history and find several more stupid decisions that have held the franchise back for a generation or longer.
This year, the common thread is value. Value is the opposite of what you get when you draft an injured player with a high first round pick or reach for a player in the 1st round who falls to the second or third round on everyone else's board.
The Raiders have been stupid for too long. Their record more than supports that claim.
They finally bucked the trend. Will that change their luck? I don't know, but at least they stepped away from insanity.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon-
J. Ellis, Broncos/ big time steal! the Broncos are one of the best developers of pass rushers in the NFL and Ellis might be another star.
D.J. Devenshire, Raiders/ not a steal but a guy who might play much better than his draft spot.
T. Eichenburg, Raiders/ the Raiders need more LBs' Spillane is the starter and I don't know if they want Eichenburg playing OLB but he might help them this year.
C. Abrams-Draine, Broncos/ a good pick they need DBs' and if they find some shut down CBs' their pass rush may be even better.
Offense:
T. Franklin, Broncos/ can be a dangerous/ electrifying player but I think he'd be better as a no. #3 WR. the Raiders need their young DBs' to play well to help make the playoffs.
D. Vele, Broncos/ I think Seve may be more game ready than Franklin because he's older and has good size. he may be able to be a full time starter in the Broncos' system.
B. Bowers, Raiders/ huge pick! could be another T. Kelce! changes the Raiders' game plan and adds a huge play maker to their system.
X. Worthy, K.C./ Wow! this is the biggest pick in the AFC West! he can change a game in a few plays! K.C. can strike from anywhere on the field now!
J. Powers-Johnson, Raiders/ big time OL can play center or guard.
J. Alt, Chargers/ very good OL can play left or right tackle.
L. McConkey, LACs/ it will take Harbuagh another year to build his team. the receiving isn't there yet but a guy like McConkey is a nice pick. he will make it easier for Herbert to move the offense.
Kingsly S., K.C./ if they can coach him up and work with/ on his game he may become a very good OT.
J. Wiley, K.C./ a good college TE. he may get a chance to play with one of the best TEs' in the NFL. he may be the guy makes the TEs even better.
Well, the Raiders have some good offensive players but they had issues with the D. they did get some DBs but we'll have to wait to see if they are starters/ good players.
but offensively the rookies looking good are with Denver; some good WRs who should help them. they may be close to making a playoff run if they can get their QBs' to play well this year. the LACs' got some help on the OL but maybe should've drafted other WRs' or Bowers but they got a top OT but it was a questionable pick since they might make him a RT. McConkey was a good pick but they need more O players. I think they're rebuilding and have good players but not enough, it'll take a year for a playoff run. K.C. hit it big! they went for speed and found gold! they got a TE but I don't know much about him. they can make another playoff run with that O and now with a play maker to give them more ways to win. X. Worthy can be used as a deep threat/ other ways and that helps K.C.
The D's got some players. The Raiders got DBs' and a LB. But LACs' did very well they got a lot of players but it will be awhile before they jel and make a playoff run, K.C. was about offense but they have a good D and the DBs' they drafted could help too. Denver got an edge/ DE and he might help them stop offenses this year. they need another pass rusher because they usually have one but its' hasn't been as good as in the past. they lost a lot of star DLs and DBs' and have young guys they have to work on/ with to reload/ rebuild or help their D.
Winners in the AFC West:
Offensive Rookies: K.C.
Defensive Rookies: Denver
The Raiders were second behind K.C. they drafted Bowers and Powers-Johnson. but K.C. drafter Worthy and Kingsley S. and that helps them be a playoff team.
Denver drafted Ellis and some DBs'. LACs' were 2nd for defensive rookies and L.V. was 3rd. LAC got a lot of D rookies but its' more of a rebuild/ reload. I hope L.V.'s DBs are as good as Denver's. Maybe L.V.'s DBs' will play well enough to help them win, maybe one of them may be a star and maybe LACs' got lots of D picks and Denver has good D rookies but our rookies will play like vets, maybe one will be a star.
Denver has new coaching as of last year. How can you say they're "one of the best at developing pass rush"? Based on what?
Nobody has played a snap and you have the Raiders at the bottom. You don't see nor understand who/what AP wants the Raiders to be. You only see shiny objects. Your takes read like you expected the Raiders to have unlimited resources with no competition at signing or selecting the players they need to fill their roster.
Raiders don't get 7 first round picks.
Perhaps you could recognize the Raiders took a new approach this year.
They took a value pick #1, however, Bowers has the attributes which AP and the Raiders now covet, like football acumen, toughness, high motor, etc. They selected players who have commitment and a little "nasty" in their approach to football.
You just see shiny objects... apparently, on other teams.
The Donkeys did not have a good draft. Most ex-NFL players are giving the Donkeys and Falcons a D for their drafts; especially when it comes to Penix and Nix's first round selection. Denver did not out draft the Raiders, and you can read their comments as to why. Now mediots like Kiper give them high grades, but Kiper is the biggest joke in the game. Nobody in the League respects this guy, and that started with his first ever draft where he heckled a coach in an interview for his pick, and the coach shut him down.
I don't buy the "Draft Grade" hype, it is all based on speculation. One word describes all the players the Raiders selected in the draft, and that word is ... gritty. This draft reminds me a lot of the 2014 draft (Mack, Carr, Gabe Jackson). AP is bringing in an O-Line that is comparable to 2016 (Hudson, G Jackson, K Osemele, D Penn, A Howard). These guys were a hybrid of power/zone blocking, and it looks like with our current O-line, and who we drafted, AP is going that direction again. Trey Taylor has the Jack Jones mentality and vibe at Safety. DeCamerion Richardson is a 6'2, 195 lbs, CB that will be a big presence in the slot/nickel that will make it difficult for WR/TEs. Dylan Laube is a gritty, downhill RB who will power his way for yards, especially short yardage. I'm excited to see how AP and stafff put this together, and yes, NY, they all are a little "nasty"; the Raider way. What does AP say? Ill-intent, violence, physicality, pain! Just Win, Baby!
To NY Raider and Raider Nate,
The reason IMO...Denver is STILL good at building DLs' and thank you, coach Peyton just got there, I didn't know they had a new staff, It only makes sense he got his own staff. but IMO...he probably got good coaches who know how to build a good DL, IMO...coach Peyton probably looked for guys who can coach up a DL, if not, and you're right, still-,their D may be a good one.
they couldn't get elite need players because they were gone?: I never said they could control who they could draft! I said they did a good thing.., just at the wrong unit(TE). L.V. took an elite player but they took a top TE last year! we passed on top CBs' and OTs'.
What may the situation in the AFC West:
The LACs' still have that bolt on their helmets to mean high scoring, exciting offense and always looks for receivers! the Broncos STILL puts defense above almost everything else, remember the 'Orange Crush'? they got two QBs' and that's another one of their traditions, they usually get a veteran QB, sometimes a star vet, and try to help him with a good D. but they made sure they picked a pass rusher and some DBs to bring back their D. K.C. is obsessed with mismatch players, projects(?) and.., here it comes!.......SPEEEEEEEED! I thought that was a quick way to lose? maybe that only applied to Al? K.C. is big, fast, will pick projects/ problem players and they're elite! I personally don't see much difference between say- Hill and Worthy(k.C.) vs. DMAC and Ford! except Reid(K.C.) uses his speed guys and Reggie's got rid of his.
Yea, K.C. and Denver are good teams and LACs are rebuilding. IMO...we're the 3rd best in the AFC West but with some work we could move to no. #2. Denvers' QB situation needs to get worked out and we need our young DBs' to play well and we need K.C. to have problems jelling on the OL and to lose some games and we might have a chance to make the playoffs.
NY and Raider Nate be loyal, excited and pumped for '24 but lets not let the media/ NFL hype them before we look at them.
Nate, our friend only likes shiny objects. Therefore, it's easy for him to mischaracterize the Raiders draft, which is filled with players who checked AP's boxes. Football acumen! High motor! Leadership! Warriors! Dedicated to their craft!
Al Anon doesn't understand who the Raiders are or have become. The Raiders picks don't make sense to him because they might not grade well with Combine measurements.
To suggest the Broncos, under new coaching, know how to develop edge rushers is completely uninformed. Again, based on what? Just because Sean Payton is their coach? Broncos with Russell Wilson at QB did worse than the Raiders, who fired their HC.
I'm sure Payton will find some success, but why would a Raiders fan go out on a limb to suggest something exceptional of them that has NOT been proven? The Broncos may have wasted a pick on Bo Nix. We'll find out.
The Chargers lost Keenan Allen and Mike Williams! There's no WR in the NFL draft that can make up for that. Period!
KC might have hit on a WR, and that will be a strength of the draft for Mahomes, but they did not draft anyone that matches Brock Bowers abilities.
Powers-Johnson cried when he found out the Raiders drafted him. This kid didn't give up a sack in college and he was graded with the most upper body strength over a span of many drafts. Powers-Johnson, Bowers, Laube and Eichenberg will all bleed silver and black for the Raiders.
Dylan Laube? Go listen to his sound bites about becoming a Raider. He's a dog and ready to battle.
The Raiders are NO LONGER about shiny objects, like our friend so desperately wants from them. They are warriors preparing for battle. The sooner he understands and embraces that, the sooner he can let go of his shiny object mentality and enjoy a new era of Raiders football.
IMO, Tom Telesco shifted his philosophy and made this draft all about Antonio Pierce and his vision. We don't know until we see the results, but it was clearly a colaberative effort.
Raiders are becoming bad asses, and Al Anon doesn't like it. Which tells me he doesn't know who Al Davis really was.
I'm in! I plan to thoroughly enjoy watching the Raiders grow into their new identity.
I know the problem is that the majority of fans (myself included) was hoping for a QB, based again on what Raiders' Inside reporters were speculating and reporting. There was talk about moving up to get Jayden Daniels. There was talk that some of these QBs would fall in the second round, and we would strike there.
After the draft, Telesco made it clear they had no plan to trade up for a QB and weren't interested in a QB after the top 3. But who did they get? Carter Bradley QB, South Alabama) as a UDFA. Bradley is 6'3, 216 lbs, is the son of Gus Bradley, passed for 8,373 yards, 58.7%, 61 TDs, 27 INTs in his collegiate career at Toledo and South Alabama. This last year, he was ranked in the top 50 NCAA QBs with a 151.3 QB Rating. He should have been drafted, but was a great UDFA pick up. AOC is switching to #12. I think you are going to see a different QB here than what we did last season. He will move the pocket, and will not be a stoic QB the way McDaniels and Hardegree wanted him to be. Gardner Minshew will give him competition for the starting job, but it is his to lose. Ill-intent, violence, physicality, pain! Just Win, Baby!
I like the Bowers pick. Having two pass catching TE's will really help in red zone, and goal line situations.
Most of the Qb's drafted will end up sucking anyway. A couple will be good, but who knows which ones.
If the 9ers can make the awful Brock Purdy look good by surrounding him with talent, maybe it works for the Raiders too.
No NY,
going out on a limb would be listening to media hyping another new regime on us.
AP and some of the player did well late last year but his is a whole season and everybody in the AFC West got something us and them.
Is it just me or did the Raiders even try to interview an elite HC? no, they didn't we hired a fired GM! Al was a success when he was hired!
Bowers and Worthy?: we have a great pick but K.C. just added another play maker to their already electrifying O. with Mahomes and Co. this may be a super bowl move. we'll need some time but we may have a super star and be able to move the ball and score points in the future. the Raiders will be able to excite and fly past teams in the short passing game but we need help to make the playoffs.
what they got!:
J. Harbaugh/ he took S.F. to a SB and won an NCAA Championship. he is working for the team that hired Al(2nd, Colts 1st). he is rebuilding the Chargers and if he wants to add some old Raiders' culture(attitude, size and speed) its' going be fun for fans but tougher for us/ the AFC West.
S. Peyton and J. Ellis/ Peyton is a very good HC and he might build a contender. Ellis may help the DL get better, he brings more pass rush to it. they drafted for O and Peyton wants a star QB but they usually win with D.
X. Worthy and Kingsley S./ Well, they got two good players and they are a contender. do they have a play maker in Worthy? will they put him in games to be a problem? is he another T. Hill? is this team an AFC contender again? did they draft a future LT and a star WR? they love speed! why are they using speed? I thought Al Davis ruined the Raiders with it?
what we got!
A.P.
some good defensive coaches
Bowers and Powers-Johnson
what they have:
Denver/ HC, DBs', LBs' and DL.
LACs/ HC, DL and OL.
KC/ WRs, TEs, HC, RBs, STs and DL
What we have:
STs, WRs, TEs and DL
Nate, Telesco is not telling media everything. He even said as much. I believe they looked long and hard at QBs in the draft and when they couldn't get Daniels they probably hoped Penix would fall to them, but he didn't.
There were 6 QBs drafted before the Raiders pick. That clearly forced the Raiders to shift.
What Telesco said, and it made sense to me, was that there was no QB in the draft after the top choices who the Raiders felt was an upgrade (now or in the future) to the two they had.
After the Bowers "value" pick, the Raiders attacked their needs.
Al Anon, still pimping everyone else's draft and coaches.
What amazes me the most about your posts is how you can take hindsight and spin it until it's unrecognizable. Like somehow the Raiders were great when they clearly weren't, but now the Raiders are going to be bad when they are clearly making strides.
Your knack for being wrong (IMO) gives me more hope than I already had.
Thank you!
FOS Anon. You say… so don't go talking about how good we are and how wrong/ stuck in the past I am- until you know hype from facts and see how good and bad we are and look at and the AFC West and where they're at too and what each team is.
I kinda know Shite from Shinola and know which you’re full of. Complaining about a teams make up before a preseason game has even been play is a lesson in futility,
our first round pick landing anywhere else in the AFC west is a nightmare situation for us! Bowers is a stud and causes match up issues across the board. As for hiring AP… he didn’t have the most flash w-L stats the second half when he took over, but he did have his team motivated and they beat everyone in the AFC West while he was coach,
also the D started hitting its stride and should continue to improve with no major changes to the staff happening.
Now for our rookie QB getting thrown into a starting roll in the middle of the season where everyone in your division is licking their chops to end you and then holding your own is a testament to the gumption that young man is showing. Only CJ Stroud showed out better as a rookie last year, we also saw a record number of points in a game by any Raiders team scored… that’s something. We have seen good and bad last year, time to let this coach go out and show us.
They added speed they added size and nasty in the draft and addressed every spot except QB in the draft. What more can we ask for from a draft? Now comes training camp and then cuts… who knows we may add another surprise or not… we just have to wait and see
Raiders still have among the most cap space in the NFL. They will use it. They recently signed Gallop at WR. I expect they may sign another vet CB and/or vet LB, maybe another OL. They will continue to assess their needs through the off-season and into training camp and preseason. I'll give Gruden/Mayock and Zeigler credit for continually bringing in players to try and improve the team, right through the season.
It's a critical job of every team's scouting dept to know and follow the rosters of every team, and pounce during cut-downs and whenever opportunity arises, something the Raiders have often been on the losing side of.
AP and the Raiders did it last year with Jack Jones!
Al Anon doesn't understand the approach the Raiders are taking. He wants the Raiders to make a "splash" because that's the Raiders he knows and loves. He cares more about having flashy players than winning games. Al Davis wanted both flash and wins but often got stuck only possessing the former.
Al Anon wants a return to flash. Team chemistry approach is new to him.
To Aussie Raider and NY Raider,
A team's makeup?: The new regime has some good points, strong TE unit, good relationship with A.P and Telesco, good group of assistants other than that:
1. there isn't a culture because the NFL and new staff won't let us keep ours.
2. we want to be ill intent? we get our asses kicked most of the time because they refuse to bring in bigger, faster athletes or star FAs'.
3. hyping a defense but not having a starting CB for '24 and hyping J. Jones before camp or the season. not drafting a top CB in high rounds to push vets and maybe help this year or maybe be a starter or part time starter in '24.
Flash!?: K.C. T. Hill, X. Worthy, Rice, T. Kelce!
LACs': L. McConkey, Ekler, K. Allen, M. Williams, maybe B. Rice.
Den. J. Judy, T. Franklin and other WRs.
note: some of the players in these lists are gone from their teams and some haven't played yet but were top college stars in the draft.
Flash!? dude...we've been getting whipped/ lit up for years by flash and this is just the last 2-4 years! K.C. uses speed at WR/ TE, Denver has fast D and SD doesn't use speed much just size(big TEs' and WRs) so see a lot of flash and get lit up by it sometimes and we need to start getting some flash players too!.
You either out score other teams, beat them with D or both.
we got Wilkins and that gave us a pro bowl inside pass rush but we didn't get another DE/ edge in draft or free agency now its almost the same problem both of these guys will have be playing a lot and won't be as fresh/ have energy to rush the passer.
* Latest news of this new regime!: rumors or allegedly, some media reports that the Las Vegas Raiders want to have a training camp in Southern California(?). Wow! I thought they had a training camp at their HQ in Henderson? Wow! seems they just can't get away from California! and BTW...why not go back to Napa? oh, I know its' the culture, you don't want Al's bad dysfunction to seep into the team every summer they have training camp! I know SOCAL is closer to NV than Napa but that camp was their summer home for years. they didn't want to stay in Oakland, the NFL wouldn't let them move back to L.A. now they want to train in SOCAL!
F.O.S anon,
You claim to know the state of the AFC west but can even take the time to google accurate players on those teams! But I will indulge you…
To item 1 no culture… tell our top players Maxx and DA that we. Can’t build a culture. That is who builds the culture the players not an owner or a coach.
2 we traded for DA we signed Wilkins we signed Spillane we brought in jacoby and Jack Jones 2 of those player are arguably 2 of the best at their positions.
3. We have 2 starting CB’s Hobbs and Jones and yes you can hype Jones because we saw him delivering for us last season, he isn’t a rookie and an unknown quantity.
Get some real facts jones…
Aussie, he's guessing. Al Anon wings it, and when he's called out and asked to support his claims with even a shred of evidence, he just wings it some more.
He doesn't understand the culture that's being built, e.g., the culture which virtually every player stood in solidarity to get a HC hired who they want to go to battle with.
His whole understanding of the Raiders (if we can call it that) stems from Al Davis who did not believe in team chemistry, often adding me-first type players for their flash and size.
Football acumen was never a concern for Al Davis, who simply thought he could coach up anybody with raw talent. Something he proved unsuccessful doing too many times, mostly at the end of his career.
This is all new to Al Anon. He just keeps making lists of players and tells us the Raiders need more flashy players.
It's reached a point of amusement.
Lots of post-draft discussion and grading out there. This article (below) does a nice job of tying together the Raiders draft into a common theme. Raiders draft said to be filled with gritty, unselfish players, several of whom were team captains at their respective college programs. They come to the Raiders having already earned the highest respect from their college peers.
Here's the url...
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40116224/raiders-2024-draft-class-antonio-pierce-culture-accomplishments-tenacity
The NFL and the Chiefs went soft and scheduled the NFL Kickoff game to be the Ravens vs. Chiefs after many had lobbied for a Raiders vs Chiefs opening game. Chiefs were scared the Raiders would ruin their Super Bowl Ring ceremony. SOFT!
NY Raider and Aussie Raider,
A rebuilt O-line/ we need to have a good run game until we see our QB(s) playing well but this line is starting to look good the starting line is but we can't afford any serious injuries. they just signed a vet OL from the Saints and maybe he can help the line get the offense moving.
A good, not great pass rush/ but we do have a pro bowlers. a DT and a very good inside pass rusher and a DE who is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. we have a couple of players who played well like M. Koonce but this unit needs more help. if one of the young DTs' like Nichols or B. Young can help this will be a better DL.
Hope with the DB unit/ its' not great but it's starting to look better! they got some athletes/ good sized DBs and one might be a star!..,but they need a starter. J. Jones needs to show last year wasn't a fluke and one of their other young vets needs to prove they can be starters for a whole season.
They have very good WR and TE units/ they have some big time players and this is one of their strongest areas. but they still could use WR H. Renfrow who would be a huge part-time player and outstanding slot receiver. the TE unit looks very good and might help them win games this year.
Well, L.V. has some good areas; looks like the new regime has done a good job and the team looks better but there are a lot of questions so we're gonna look at some of the problem areas with the new regime:
some questions:
We don't have a top ten pass rush because we think all you need is 1-2 top players and you're a good DL! we need a good backup edge to help the pass rush do a good enough job to give Crosby a rest. we didn't draft a DT, DE/ edge or sign one in free agency but still may find a good one. if we can't, Wilkins and Crosby will have to play more and it'll be harder to give them a rest.
* 2 of best at their positions!?: maybe Meyers might be a top WR but we don't have a good secondary!! please Aussie! J. Jones had a huge couple of games but it was late in the year and Hobbs is a good back up. we need somebody to start for us, we don't know if these two(Hobbs and Jones) can play well as starters and especially Jones is a star CB.
Al's negatives?: o.k. you got some good(bad) points about Al. yes, SOMETIMES talented guys with issues/ didn't play well. but mostly, he his players wanted to win for him and the team was more than good enough to overcome its' issues, dysfunction and bad decisions.
No, we have a decent vision not a culture because Reggie was hired to destroy our culture! we haven't had one in years! its' been the 'NFL way'! and you defend them when we keep losing!
Al was a legend like many other famous HCs', GMs' and owners and he made decisions to try and win. Good or bad it WAS his fault/ credit that won or lost for the Raiders. Now, its' just some guys making decisions with the NFL watching them!
HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!!!!!
say Hello! to your MOM!
Don't forget her today!
Make some calls and let Mothers, yours and others, know you didn't forget them!
NFL soft?: Ummmmm.....no Nate! they don't have much love for the Raiders that's why they wouldn't schedule that game AND, they want the highest ratings for the game so until the Raiders win a little the NFL doesn't want to put them in any big games until they know that it will be a good one.
Anon Jones/ maybe PR
We have 2 outstanding WR’s DA and Meyers. I don’t know why you choose to leave out the DA trade from our history but he is a Raider and an elite one at that.
Also our defense is top 10 ranked when’s the last time we had one? and the second half of the season where we played some decent teams ( Chiefs twice)
We were one of the top scoring teams and a top ranked D, that is something to build on.
Our friend is trying to build a stat sheet. It only makes sense to him if he can say a player is top-10, or a pro bowler, or fastest, tallest, etc.
Meanwhile, Gruden was given 10 years. McDaniels would have had longer but he self-destructed.
The current regime has been in place for 1/3 of an offseason. We all saw what Pierce did with McDaniels team last year. The draft was filled with talented players who have traits that Pierce covets. Cut and paste the url I posted above and you can read about each pick. The author does a nice job of threading the draft picks together in a common theme.
Raiders still have cap space, and they will likely spend it.
IMO, this is one of the most measured and focused off-seasons in a while. The team has a clear vision, thanks to AP. QB is still a wildcard but they were smart not to reach for one after six QBs were drafted in the top-12 picks.
Team leaders lobbied for the Raiders brass to leave everyone in place. They understand that's not possible, but it speaks to the importance of chemistry.
Al Anon keeps looking outside the org for answers because he doesn't know or understand what's inside.
Gloom and doom anon,
I said the NFL was soft because they did not want to see the Raiders beat the Chefs on opening kickoff day because that is when they get their Super Bowl rings. Nor do they want to see their beloved Patricia Mahomes taken to the ground by Maxx Crosby, Malcolm Koonce, and Christian Wilkins. All of that to say that there is no doubt that the Ravens are a tough team, but they have yet to put it together to beat the Chefs.
But you continue to see what you want to see. Cry gloom and doom all you want, but the bottom line is the Raiders are building a bully. Going back to the board of what Reggie McKenzie started. I guarantee Jackson Powers-Johnson is going to be a force this season, and is my pick for Rookie of the Year. As well, Brock Bowers, DJ Glaze, Decamerion Richardson, and Trey Taylor will be dominant impacts for the team. Did you know Trey Taylor, who was picked in the 7th Round, was a Jim Thorpe award winner last season?
The Raiders had a solid draft of solid players in every round! AOC is going to surprise people this year, guaranteed. There are a lot in Raider Nation that are going to owe him an apology; but I fear that these idiots complaining about him are going to treat him worse than Derek Carr.
I'm not going to say we are going to win the Super Bowl, they have to go prove that. But I am more optimistic about it, especially with Antonio Pierce.
And in non-football, proud dad moment, news. We found out yesterday that my son was voted by our district's coaches to be Pitcher of the Year, and Academic All District Player. He ended the season 6-2, 2.17 ERA, 43 Strike Outs, 17 Walks, 1 No Hitter/CG, 2 Shut-outs, in 24 1/3 Innings Pitched. Again, he is a Sophomore this year. Can't wait to see what he does in the next two years.
AP is giving his team leaders a chance to set the tone. That never happened under McDaniels. Suddenly, Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams and others are defining the attitude of the team. Players are practically in charge. Work hard and play hard. These guys don't take plays off, even in practice.
Add, Robert Spillane, Jack Jones, Powers-Johnson, et al. The mindset starts with AP but also comes right from the players. It's deep-rooted and it's contagious. Either you have it, or you're not a Raider.
These are uncharted waters. I can't promise wins, but I'm confident it will be fun to watch.
IMO, this is more than an assemblage of players that make a team. The Raiders have leadership that's been sorely lacking for a long time.
We've broken the cycle of insanity and we are seeing a NEW approach.
Let me be clearer on what I believe is the NEW approach.
AP isn't just a return to old ways, making the Raiders tough and feared. He's a pragmatic coach. When needed, he will make changes that make sense. And it seems Telesco is there to plug in players that fit the AP mold.
Forget Al's years. I won't go there. But recent coaches, like Gruden and McDaniels, are system coaches. They came to the Raiders and tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. It didn't work.
Sure, we can say Gruden made strides, but 4 years is a long time to wait for signs of progress, and we were still stuck in a system. Look at what Bisaccia was able to do when he took over and relaxed the system. The team responded. AP is that, and more.
I'm a big fan of Derek Carr, but he's not proven to be worthy of leading a team to the playoffs. It's not all his fault, but he needed to be better (still does).
Do we have that in Minshew or O'Connell? IDK. But we have a coach who will get the most out of all his players. And that, IMO, is the difference.
And don't be fooled by AP's inexperience. He hired former HCs to watch his back and make sure things go without a hitch. Raiders also added a position on coaching. I forget the exact title but it's a sideline coordinator to stay sharp and advise on gametime decisions, like challenges. That's also what separates AP from his predecessors, he's ego isn't too big to have someone fill that role.
I like the new approach. It's opposite of what the Raiders usually put out there, absent a stubborn and egotistical ruling class. Everybody has a say. All hands on deck.
Aussie Raider,
You got some good points! TE/ WR units:
D. Adams
B. Bowers
J. Meyers
Outstanding but will they jel before the season?
The Defense?: you don't have a lot of strong points! but there are a few strong ones but they aren't that bad in fact are pro bowlers or elite stars:
M. Crosby
Wilkins
Epps
R. Spillane
J. Jenkins
B. Nichols
Two elite players and then some good ones. but they don't have a top back up DE/ edge or starting CBs' yet! this is not a D you want to be going against K.C.
K.C. is an elite team, Denver will soon be and the Chargers have Harbaugh but they're rebuilding. but we don't have the D to help our O win a lot of games yet. we have some outstanding spots(DE, DT, MLB) but could use some vets/ young players to help them they needed to bring in more FA's to make the D better.
We are the third best team in the AFC West and its' close with Denver but, there is a new regime and they bought in some good players:
1. they have two young QBs'.
2. they only need to fill some holes in the DL and secondary to rebuild their D.
3. they have an experienced HC who also is one of the best in the NFL.
4. their O-line is a little bit better than ours and its' jelled.
but this can change very quickly; this team isn't that far from being a good one and only better QB depth, jelled OL and a faster D gives Denver the edge so this can change because:
1. we have outstanding WR/ TE units.
2. if A. Peat can help us out OL may jel quicker.
3. we can still trade for a good starting CB and that will help us on D.
4. if our linebackers jel and play over the level they're ranked in(overachieve).
So, that's IMO...the Raiders' issues and why they're a good not top team yet. they did some very good things and even picked an elite college player and a top FA but didn't keep signing star players and didn't pick a top CB in the draft.
Aussie's claims: you said the D is ranked in the top 10. o.k., and we were one of the top scoring teams. The DA trade was an o.k. move but GB got two high draft picks for him, its' great having Adams but then we just let the guys that could make him a threat and the offense go and didn't exactly build the offense around him and win more games.
defense isn't ranked in top 10 after having games in the last part of a season.
One of the top scoring teams?: that was late in the season. we put up 63 point against the LACs and then got shut out by a mediocre Vikings' team.
they let Carr walk and refused to bring in a good veteran and other players to give Adams help changing the team into a winner.
Aussie and N.Y., they did good but they didn't do great! we did very good- not great!, we fixed needs(OL) and finally drafted for talent but we didn't sign star players in free agency to fix other need areas or draft top stars in bad/ need areas. we did good and you were right in some areas but you guys also need to know you don't want to be fooled by these regimes and NFL hype and be so stubborn/ stuck in our claims/ opinions that we don't want to listen to, look into or question their decisions and NFL hype and their culture.
.
There you go again. You're stuck in a rut. You have a predisposition of players based on your interpretation of stat sheets or where you think they rank.
For some reason, you can't escape your ranking system, like that's who the Raiders are (and will be when the season starts).
My point has been very simple. That way of thinking is critically flawed and completely invalid now that AP is head coach. Raiders are a team of bandits. There's no way you can measure them right now. Top-10, Top-5, star players, elites. That's all nonsense.
The Raiders have filled their roster (~90 players). Telesco and AP will review and re-review, cut and sign players as the off-season program continues, and into the season.
When the season is over, they will do it again, until this team is a mean, lean fightin' machine.
It's got nothing to do with stats!
Chasing stats has failed the Raiders so many times.
To Raider Nate and NY Raider,
The Chargers have Harbaugh and are rebuilding but they already have a top DL and maybe the OL, they too made a questionable pick by making J. Alt(Notre Dame) a RT but then they got their WR and may have a huge steal with another one, J. Rice's son Brenden.
The Broncos are rebuilding their D. Getting Ellis was huge, they have a top HC and already good players on D and
they got their QBs and will be able to take their time with the WR/ TE units.
K.C. is kicking ass again! they still have an elite HC. they already are elite but got greedier/ dangerous by adding more SPEED with X. Worthy. they take athletes and problem guys and don't copy the NFL/ Bellichick systems with their rosters; now, they aren't rebels and probably use the systems in other areas but they use those guys with high I.Q., passionate, high character guys too.
We got a good GM not great, sometimes staff gets' fired and haters will say oh at least we didn't get a GM that got fired but Telesco is doing good. we got our OL rebuilt and we have some good players to build with. he also brought in some good vets to make the team jel quicker. but K.C. is elite! Denver may be a contender soon and the LACs' look like they'll be a very good team in a few years. they Raiders have made some good moves but they are a new regime and will need time to get better. they need to spend more and find some good vet FA's to compete this year. they need to find vet help and spend/ take chances in trades to find help for their secondary, LB unit and DL if they're gonna compete for a playoff spot this year. they can't hype their issues so much that fans/ critics can't see their issues. they need to spend more on FA talent and not try to be NFL way too much and not wait until its' almost the start of the season or even after it starts or later in the season to make moves.
That makes no sense to me. "Top xxx", "elite xxx", blah, blah, blah. You prop up other teams in the division without any clue how they will play. Chiefs are the closest to sure thing (mostly because of Mahomes) and the Raiders beat them the last December.
Your ranking system (based on pure conjecture) doesn't work. This is a new era of Raiders football. Embrace it!
To NY Raider and Aussie Raider,
We have:
a young HC who had a good run in late in the season. we don't yet know how good he is.
a pro bowl WR and a very good WR from the Patriots but we could've had one of the best in the NFL with Renfrow here too.
an elite pass rusher and a pro bowl DT. but we don't have a speed rusher and don't know if we have the talent to bring a good pass rush when the starters are out and we can give Wilkins and Crosby a rest.
Defense, rookies who may help their teams in '24:
1. Ellis, Broncos/ another good edge for Denver
2. Junior Colson, Chargers/ Michigan LB may help finally bring some good LB play to L.A.
3. Justin Eboigbe,Chargers/ they need a DT/ NG and he might be able to help them in a 4-3 maybe even as a NG.
4. T. Eichenberg/ we need OLBs' and they picked him, he's a good player and should be a good back up to Spillane.
5. Cam Hart, Chargers/ tall CB, not the fasted but is experienced.
6. K. Abrams-Draine, Broncos
7. M.J. Davonshire, Raiders/ a good college CB may be better as a special team'er but could be steal and become a good back up CB.
AFC West Offense, rookies:
Brock Bowers/ questionable but bold could be a huge play maker for Raiders, TE position not as good as Gruden's but now one of the best in NFL!
Franklin and Seve/ Broncos picked two good WRs' and that may make the O better until they find out who their QB will be.
L. McConkey/ they did't pick a WR in the 1st round, the Chargers!? wow! I thought they might pick Bowers or Nabers but they got McConkey and that is a good move.
X. Worthy/ another speed pick! another play maker for K.C. nobody questions' their picks! I thought speed was bad/ out? can score from anywhere on the field!, AFC West needs more star DBs or find Bellichicks'/ NFL way of game planning against speed teams. not the best WR but K.C. can use him in different ways and change a game fast. they can change a game and add more speed to their offense and that helps them win more games. they will use old ideas and new ones but they aren't afraid to use old ideas/ systems like speed to win.
Not sure why you keep posting these lists of players (rookies!). It proves nothing. You continue to view things through a narrow lens, mostly propping up other teams in the division.
You try to rationalize but your rationale is flawed. You are obsessed with speed and other attributes which you believe Al coveted. But for some reason, you deny the many failures by the Raiders using your criteria.
This is a new era.
Raiders need a QB. They fell short in the draft because of where they were slotted. Not their fault. This year will be a test run for two QBs who will need to step up. Next year there will be several good free agents and the Raiders might get another chance in the draft.
Everything thing else is superfluous... yet, that's what you're obsessed with. The Raiders aren't going to get better by having another speedy WR or CB. They need a QB, and that is totally out of their control until next year.
Jim Otto has passed… one of the greatest at his position.
Aussie Raider
FOS Anon
B. Nichols isn’t with the Raiders he will play for the cardinals… smh… please at least use google to back your argument with facts, throwing crap and seeing if it sticks is just weak…
Aussie Raider
RIP 00 THE GREATEST RAIDER AND GREATEST CENTER. Sandy
RIP Jim Otto, fierce competitor, nicest dude anyone has ever met.
The Raiders have a lot of elite players and humans on their roster, but only 2 legends; Al Davis and Jim Otto.
To Raidernation!,
We lost a legend, giant, original Raider and Hall of Fame'er.
Jim Otto was signed by the Oakland Raiders and became a pro bowl center and one of the best in NFL history!
He never stopped trying to be a friend and adviser to Al and the new Raiders. He went to games and probably was trying to give advise to the front office. He will be remembered for being a HOF center but he also did a lot of things after his career was over for charities and ex-NFL people and players.
There are a lot of great centers and Jim Otto is one of them.
Jim Otto, thanks for all of your great games and being a part of the Oakland Raiders!
RIP
Jim Otto
Nice post Al Anon but OttO was not one one of the best centers he greatest center ever. Sandy
During the Raiders heyday, they had Jim Otto and Dave Dalby at center. Two guys! 25 years! Nuff said!
Don Mosbar snuck in at the end of that period and the Raiders O-line was anchored by these three guys from 1960 to 1995.
The only other time the Raiders made it to the Super Bowl, they had Barrett Robins at Center, and he would eventually be replaced by Rodney Hudson.
IMO, the Raiders have had the best centers in football history, individually and collectively. Jim Otto was the man who started that incredible chain... NEVER missed a game!
Not to put a sour note on this, but if you look at the Raiders biggest failures, it was during a period which they struggled to find a reliable anchor at center. The gap between Barrett Robbins and Rodney Hudson is when Al Davis (the Raiders) jumped the shark.
Who friggin' picks the number "00"?! Only a badass!
IMO, Otto didn't care as much about being a pro bowler or a hall of famer, as Al Anon measures all the players he lists. Those things were nice but ancillary. Otto was a Raider first and always!
RIP
Good post NY 00 was Mr. Raider. He is the man on the logo he gave his life in his leg for the team. Robin's was a great Center it is amazing how many great centers the Raiders had. Eventually I think Jackson power Johnson will slide into that position Sandy
Funny, I didn't make that connection until you said it. IMO, JPJ is destined to be the Raiders next great center. Andre James just doesn't know it yet. Powers-Johnson was ranked by many to be the top center in the draft, and he has that nastiness which past Raiders centers thrived with. The Raiders drafted some badass kids who want to be part of what's happening under AP. I think (and hope) we can all be proud again, soon.
NY Raider,
Al's Centers other than Jim Otto:
J. Grove/ not the best Raiders' center, criticized by media and fans.
J. Newberry/ still a pro bowl level C when he signed with Oakland.
S. Sateli/ a little small, but a good NFL/ playoff level C
D. Mosebar/ pro bowl level C
B. Lewis/ did a decent job didn't play C for long for Raiders.
D. Dalby/ very good, sometimes pro bowl center one of the best centers in Raiders' history.
B. Robbins/ a pro bowl level C but had baggage and issues.
ex-Tampa Bay Center #71('07)/ played o.k., the team was sucking and getting worse back then.
Raiders fist and always!!!!? What new regime acted most like or close to anything like the old Raiders!?
Reggie fired all of Al's players and staff then bought in mediocrity! he got rid of players the system and culture and didn't do anything to rebuild a better one! Gruden/ Mayock weren't able to/ allowed to do much, they could do a little. think Gruden didn't want to bring in star FAs? he wanted more players and they wouldn't let him/ Mayock.
Al created a system and-, I'll even say sometimes its' time to move on from any system no matter how good it was but he had 1 that used size, speed and athleticism.
Bellichick brought a stricter game plan to the NFL where-, you didn't depend on athleticism but preparation, discipline and smart players. other teams/ critics weren't fans of that system but the Patriots dominated the NFL for years and won 6 SBs'. the system wasn't new and many teams have W/ L with it. but Bellichick remade it, found the guys to run it and won with it. other teams tried to copy or use some of the 'Patriot way' and it took over the NFL.
It had NOTHING to do with Al's/ other legend's ideas being too old, just that the NFL copied off of a winning teams' system(Patriots).
The Patriots had a game plan and it worked and had a lot the NFL loved. it wasn't about stars, he got good players and put them into a system Oh yea! he sure did a system of quality but a cheap one! Bellichick got elite level football for low price! a guy could win with average/ good players over star/ elite expensive guys. Now, they won and that was o.k. but didn't get the expensive guys to come in but later it did and they agreed to play for less I guess for a chance to win.
although he signed many star players but didn't pay them as much as other teams would.
That is one system and one of the best but Al's system was one of best too. its' not just one system that wins, maybe Al's ideas got old but I don't see how that happened in one year but it seems to me K.C. is doing just fine! they like SPEED, SIZE and athleticism and man do they light teams up!
So, the Pats way was good but other ideas win too!
the Raiders don't act anything like the old Raiders! and they don't want to use anything from it!
we stopped using a legends'/ genius' ideas and we don't have speed or a good secondary and you guys think we are doing well?
This is some of the things we've done since the new regimes bought their program to the Raiders:
they've moved on from size and speed but it hasn't helped them win.
when they DO pick good OLs' they don't add talent around their stars to put up more points.
they don't think they need elite DBs' and they don't win a lot.
they've had outstanding DLs' but they refuse to put depth behind them or add more FA talent and that makes it hard to sack the QB
No, we aren't acting like the Raiders! we don't use Al's ideas and listen to the NFL! that's the main problem! we thought things would get better nothing wrong with Bellichick's way except we acted as if nothing Al did worked anymore so we don't use speed but K.C. does and they kick our asses with it.
Al Anon, you measure players on medals and honors. The more you do that, the more I realize how little those things matter. It's a team sport.
The list of centers was already presented. Other centers who played for the Raiders contributed to their failures. The anchors who made a difference are on a short list, and it all started with 00.
The reason Reggie "fired" all Al's players is because the Raiders were in salary cap hell. Al shot the moon for several years before his passing and left the Raiders in shambles. You want to bring us back to that period by signing "star" and "elite" players. That's exactly what Al tried to do and why the Raiders failed so miserably at the end of his career.
Having a few trophy players on your team does not make a good team.
The Raiders recently signed guys like Jakobi Meyers and Robert Spillane and were rewarded. Neither of these guys came to the Raiders with medals or honors. Spillane was a backup. They are team players!
You need to get your priorities straight. Do you want to win games, or do you just want to keep counting how many pro bowlers the Raiders have?
Full of Shtuff anon,
Al is dead…
To say the Raiders aren’t following his (Al’s) philosophy is ridiculous plain and simple. You can say they strayed when they hired Josh, but before that, the coaches hired had been typical Raider coaches hires… preaching the same Bigger faster stronger rhetoric. Every team in the league preaches some version of this.
We are all tired of the Raiders losing and want bigger and better things. Oddly enough the furthest the Raiders strayed from that model of Als was when the signed Rich Gannon and moving on from Als strong armed QB Jeff George. Gannon aged 33 was joining his 4th team in 12 year and the first as a starter. His record at the time was 31-27 including 11-8 during his last 4 years with KC… people heads would be exploding today if Minshew was signed and had those same numbers! Let’s give AP a chance to coach and see what he can do. The Raiders get a huge cap relief on June 1st once Jimmy can come off the books. Let’s see what that brings… Oh and BTW they gave Maxx a raise to show how much they appreciate his efforts, but I forgot they aren’t allowed to spend cash…
On that note this teams cash flow is night and day different than when they first moved here from Oakland the reason they had to work the payroll without so much guaranteed money. I for one can’t wait for training camp, because OTA’s seemed to be taking off on the right foot.
Yes I want to see them win but wow! you sure have some strange points!
When Reggie fired all of those players did he say o.k. this is Al's fault maybe you guys didn't get a chance to play well so you got a year. if these guys were as bad-average as you claim why not see what they could do with better coaches?
but strangely the team was loaded with ex-high draft picks, pro bowlers, average guys and some future HOF'ers(7 over 9 years). yea getting the point? if he didn't think they were worth keeping then there must've been good reasons for his actions:
1. he had an awesome plan for us that he had to get rid of them.
2. that Al's system got so old over one year after playing in a SB that size, speed and spending weren't even talked about and had to be ejected!
3. that Reggie/ staff were so good they didn't need any of those terrible elite, pro bowl and future HOF players. they knew football even thought he was never a GM before and nobody was in the building giving him advise. note: R. Wolfe and K. Herock allegedly were giving him advise.
4. that a 5 year rebuild was the best way to turn things around even though they'd find the cheapest talent, let good players walk/ go and lose for awhile. note: this is a PARITY league were mediocrity can win so why would it take 5 years to rebuild a team in a PARITY league?
5. that MD would let him run every
6. somebody then fired the HC who took them there for Gruden/ Mayock regime.
7. the Raiders again, didn't spend big to build a team that could win much sooner.
8. Reggie took legendary areas and ruined them/ A. the DBs' went from very good(or mediocre according to some fans) and made one of if not the worst in the NFL.
B. they got rid of the best STs' in the NFL and made it mediocre. we still had pro bowl kickers but the unit got mediocre.
C. the stunt of paying OLs' big money and building an elite OL to block for o.k.-good talent was embarrassing and disgraceful-, if they kept a DMAC, C. Palmer, M. Bush or J. Ford then they could've blocked for elite talent and maybe been a better team but instead wanted an elite line trying to help make mediocrity play like stars.
Reggie didn't do much for us, he was hired to clean house and it was a bad deal. he did some good things but mostly mediocre. this team has been worse than Al's last era except haters were mostly on the outside now, they're on the inside.
These outsiders came up with the lie that ex-NFL people advised MD to hire Reggie and fire Al's people. no, I don't think so, I think others got into teams front office and wanted to erase their culture and make a new Raiders' team and get pay back.
*Size and Speed?: K.C. kicks our asses with Size and SPEED! you say oh, we beat them once or twice over a few years but they win we don't! SPEED is good if you use it right and Al knew how! Miami, Dallas and K.C. use SPEED and they win!
NY and Aussie, you say this team is good it has a lot of issues, unproven staff and holes and they still support the NFL/ Bellichick way. so you think they can coach up good, not elite guys? fine but Al knew how to build good rosters and he used SPEED to win. why Raider slumped is a mystery good team with elite players win more than mediocre ones Bellichick was different BTW...he got elite veterans to help him win. but SPEED and Size can help a team and maybe the Raiders need to use it and maybe they will start to look like a winner.
Yours is such a simple approach. Let's see how they do with better coaches? Really? Dennis Allen? Really?!
I think maybe you should go back and see where the Raiders were at the time Reggie McKenzie took over before you question my takes on that time period. The roster was overcooked with big salaries, guarantees and dead money that cost the Raiders at least two full seasons.
Go back and look. Don't just wing it. Please!
What connections do the Raiders still have to Belichick. Antonio Pierce? Do you think thru this stuff before you type, or do you just type?
I wish I had a dime for all the players Al Davis and the Raiders said they planned to "coach up," as you put it. What a joke.
Al Davis never hired an elite HC.
Before you quibble back with some ridiculous response like Norv Turner, you better read that statement a couple times.
The insane irony with you is that you want to live in the Raiders past, but you don't actually know their past.
Al Davis was the owner, the GM, the head coach, the lead scout, and about a half dozen more titles that precluded the Raiders from having the kind of organization hierarchy that you keep complaining they can't escape.
FOS ANON
YOU SAID These outsiders came up with the lie that ex-NFL people advised MD to hire Reggie and fire Al's people. no, I don't think so, I think others got into teams front office and wanted to erase their culture and make a new Raiders' team and get pay back... I call BS
You can watch the YOUTube link below and Mark Davis in his own words will tell you Who he conferred with to hire Reggie, Here is a hint Ron Wolfe/John Madden...
https://youtu.be/twgj0FMaTaI?si=POA1SCj96qQWO0lE&t=297
Reggie was a failure, no ifs ands or buts about it, along with his hot garbage of a hire Dennis Allen. But hey everyone makes mistakes right:/
Mark Davis was no Al...he knew he could not in any capacity manage a NFL team and he wanted a take charge guy who he thought Reggie was. Unfortunately for us fans we cant hit the fast forward or rewind to the days that will best suite us and we just have to go with the flow.
You need to rethink your conspiracy theories sometimes teams suck for a long time and then they get good, we all can look around all sports and see perineal losers all of a sudden become winners.
We can all disagree on whether or not the Raiders are handling their business correctly and if they are headed in the right direction, but the constant faux comparisons with the "way Al did it" is nauseating, as that argument (or at least the person making it) completely ignores the simple fact that Al got it wrong so many times after the Raiders string of SB wins.
The Raiders peaked in the 70s and 80s. That was 40 years ago! Sure, they had a few moments here and there, but they stopped being a perennial powerhouse. It wasn't a short span or a small fall from grace, it was an epic collapse during which no team subjected themselves to more HC changes, nor wasted more draft capital than the Raiders.
Facts are facts. We can't rewrite history, even though some try. As they say, if you tell the same untruth long enough, you start believing it yourself.
The Raiders are embarking on a new era. It's got no connection with Bill Belichick or the "Patriot way." It's not being mandated or somehow directed by the NFL. Yet, this is what we are still being told.
It's the product of Mark Davis making a mostly uninformed (IMO), gut decision to buy into the raw energy that Antonio Pierce brings to the team. It's not Pierce bringing back old school Raider Way. He's already demonstrated to be a pragmatic individual, hiring 2-3 former HCs on his staff and hiring a game manager. This isn't about someone's large ego.
I don't have any bold prediction. I'm mostly just looking forward to seeing it unfold.
But there is a process and it's moving forward. And I don't think it includes AP counting how many pro bowlers he has on his roster.
Don't know if any of you are paying attention to the Sunday Ticket trial, but it is fascinating. Plaintiffs are arguing how NFL is price-gouging to prevent people from purchasing it, and has side deals with CBS, Fox, and others at the beginning because it would (and has) affected their ratings. NFL and other channels are, of course, denying the side deal even though there are hints that it is false. PFT reports in 2011, CBS Sports chairman, Sean McManus:
"sent an email to NFL executives explaining that CBS 'need[s] clarification' on Sunday Ticket pricing, because the “concept” of the package was for it to be 'sold at a premium' and to 'limit distribution.' The official response to the McManus email is that the league never specifically promised that Sunday Ticket will carry a certain price, in order to guarantee limited distribution. This points to the possibility of a side deal, or at a minimum a gentleman’s understanding...”
He also testified that he preferred Sunday Ticket would have never come into existence, which could further indicate a side deal.
PFT has also reported:
"In her opening statement, NFL lawyer Beth Wilkinson said, 'The case is about choice.' She then said, 'We want as many people as possible to watch the free broadcasts.'
Both can’t be true. If it’s about choice, Sunday Ticket would be cheap. If it’s about maximizing the audience for the free broadcasts, Sunday Ticket would be expensive."
The point to all of this, if the judge deems Sunday Ticket to be price gouging to limit a fan's "choice" (as NFL Lawyer claims) then Sunday Ticket will go away; and the opportunity to purchase a single team's broadcast may become available. Isn't that what we all complain about Sunday Ticket? Why do we have to purchase all the games, why can't we purchase the games of our favorite team? Because some of that monies goes to CBS, Fox, ESPN, etc. (that is the claim of the lawsuit). It would be awesome, IMHO, to purchase Raiders' games only for $100-150 per season, instead of $350 per year for all the games.
Hey Raidernation!
Hey, there could be another VIRUS coming! make sure you have your over the counter/ hospital medicine. Make sure you have defense like small travel towels/ napkins, nose towels for your covering nose and sneezing.
If you need a mask take some in your pockets.
Be very careful,
Hey Raidernation!,
The year is still new but the NFL season isn't far away and training camp is very close. The new regime is working to build the team in its vision, game plan and new system.
If the D-line is our best unit then we might be talking winning a few more games but looking at next year for a playoff run.
Now, fans are supposed to be positive and expect big things but they also need to question their team's actions. L.V. seems to be making progress and I won't get too into the how good or bad they may seem.
But the media seems to like to hype them and fans need to ask is this really the story? They may've made progress but maybe there is some of the questionable attitudes/ ideas of the other new regimes in their game plans.
They're being slow using their money- making my claim they're cheap look good. They say they're waiting to sign veteran DBs' but they have serious holes/ problems with their CBs' and need a starter- how will their pass rush get going without a secondary to help them?
If the D-line is L.V.'s strength, they may get a few more wins and have to wait until next year for a playoff run. they have two pro bowlers but need a speed rusher who can help on big/ long passing downs.
They need to sign a veteran FA pass rusher to
make the line even better and to give them a good backup and give M. Crosby/ M. Koonce more rest.
The fans want a winning team but they also need to know if they're hearing good game plans or hype- if they can make a run, not good enough yet but could be if they get more talent '24 or is this a rebuilding year?
Fans say this regime has made big moves but they've also made the same bad decisions as the other new regimes. they refuse to spend on veteran FAs' they need CBs but they aren't going after any. the D-line will have a tough time sacking the QB without a good secondary.
Raidernation! this team is not that good! they could win more games but they aren't a playoff team.
Saying the Raiders aren't a playoff team before the first snap is defeatist and contrary to being a Raiders fan, or a fan of any team for that matter.
For someone like yourself who holds up past failures with high esteem, it's laughable that you've already written off this season.
You don't know what you don't know. You just think you do.
Truth is, you're just upset that the Raiders don't have more pro bowlers. Because that's how you measure success.
Summer and its' hot!!
make sure you stay hydrated.
ask if there are programs where people pass out bottled water for seniors, kids and anybody having problems in a heat wave/ hot day.
take bottled water with you were you go.
use sun screen before going out.
eat cool fruit keep in refrigerator or buy it at a store.
buy ice cream cones, pop cycles and milk shakes while out.
get the weather report before going out.
keep an eye on/ watch out for kids, handicapped and the elderly and get info on cooling stations(libraries, hospitals and grocery stores) to learn about and tell neighbors/ seniors about them.
water lawn at night.
be sure to put up shades wherever side of house the sun is shining on. use sun glass on windows if affordable and possible.
wear lighter clothing.
open windows at night if possible
put fans in window only if safe and with help from others.
keep lights off if possible
I like to consider myself a realist, and am not into pre-season "hype" by media or team. I think we have a playoff caliber team; but the team does have some glaring holes, and that starts with QB play. On the one hand, we all saw AOC last season; but did we get to see all of his potential? I don't believe we did. I think the majority of what we saw is an inexperienced OC in Bo Hardegree who wasn't willing to stray away from Josh McDaniels' game book.
At the same time, I'm not a big fan of Luke Getsy either. But, it is not all on Getsy's shoulders, or Antonio Pierce's shoulders for that matter. Pierce has surrounded the coaches with senior consultants to hold them accountable. Pierce has Marvin Lewis and Tom Coughlin. Getsy has Joe Philbin (who was a horrible HC, but a master OC); and they hired Scott Turner (son of Norv) as the Passing Game coordinator. Patrick Graham has brought back Rob Ryan; and they all have Matt Sheldon who is the Game Management Coordinator to help with challenges, getting the play in, time outs, game plan adjustments, etc. Pierce has set themselves up for no excuses by giving his coaching staff all the accountability and resources they need to help their weaknesses.
Another hole is the loss of Josh Jacobs. I think Josh was expecting to come back and not get a call from Telesco told him all he needed to know. This is a bigger loss than the battle for QB right now. Zamir White looked brilliant toward the end of last season, but has not carried the ball much. I don't know why the NFL is down on RBs right now; but 20-25 carries a game is essential to winning, and you need a strong RB to do that; and RB by committee has proven to be useless here. CB is another glaring mystery. Outside of Jones, Hobbs, and Facyson; we have a lot of question marks here beginning with Bennett.
With that said, D-Line is the biggest improvement on the team, and our DB's shouldn't be on an island for 4+ seconds after the snap. I think our O-Line is going to be better than advertised especially with the potential of a two TE set. Again, the big question, can Getsy work the strengths of the offense? Can he spread the ball to his weapons and balance it with a strong running game? I guess we will see in a few months.
This may be a little long, but bear with me here. It will start a little off topic of the Raiders, but I promise, I will connect it.
I'm noticing something that I haven't really put together until this year. I love baseball, the teams I follow are the Dodgers and A's. I used to follow the Yankees until they fired Girardi and hired Aaron Boone. I keep tabs on the team, I like Aaron Judge, but I think Aaron Boone is a cancer. I know it's weird to be a fan of these 3 teams too, but let me explain. My dad was a Dodgers' fan, grew up going to Chavez Ravine and watching them. I was born in Oakland, and my first baseball game was an A's v Yankees game in 1980; and 2 things happened. I got an autograph from then Yankees pitcher Matt Keough, and agreed to root for the Yankees (Yanks won 6-3). This was also Rickey Henderson's first full year with the A's, and absolutely love Rickey; he's my favorite all-time baseball player. Imitated his batting stance, swing, and base stealing from Little League through High School. I was at Game 6 of the 1988 NLCS between the Dodgers and Mets, rooting for the Dodgers. Then, turned around and was at Game 1 of the '88 World Series rooting for the A's (and received a lot of grief from the Dodgers' fans there a few sections from where Gibson hit the famous walk-off HR; including from my dad). It was all in good fun, and I knew from that point the Dodgers were going to win. I was at Game 4 of the 1998 World Series in San Diego, above RF over Tony Gwynn and Paul O'Neill, and saw the Yankees win the World Series. I would also go to Angel's Stadium to see the A's and Yankees play, and my dad would go along with it. All that to say, I can watch any baseball team play and be happy, but these are the 3 teams I follow closely.
Now, back to the Yankees a little bit. I quit following them because of Aaron Boone, don't like him, horrible manager of the game; and as long as he is at the helm, I don't give much mind to the team except for Aaron Judge. Judge's career reminds me a lot of his college teammates' current career as well. He was teammates with Derek Carr. Both have put up insane stats and have single-handedly put their team in a position to win and be competitive every season they have been with their teams. Both are recognized as above-average superstars in their respective sports; and both have had horrible coaches and have played with a lack of good depth on their teams. Sure Judge has Stanton, Rizzo, Cole, and now Volppe; but outside of that, who is consistent on that team? Stanton has battled injuries his whole time in pinstripes. The same with Carr. He has had Crabtree, Jacobs, Mack, Cooper, Crosby, and one season with Davante; but the numerous coaches have squandered that talent and dismantled what could have been a championship team.
I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into this, but there is a lot of similarities between Judge's career and Carr's. Both have struggled in the post-season, neither have a title, the talent and coaching around them for the most part has been subpar, yet these two keep putting up tremendous numbers and are a HUGE part of their teams success; and both get hammered by the media and fans. It's crazy.
To Raider Nate,
The Yankees, Dodgers and A's all have their own great histories those are some outstanding teams. Its' been tough for the Dodgers and terrible for the A's but NY just keeps on going.
Baseball is so greedy and powerful that it forgets to watch out for its' fans and not be so greedy. Why fans want to put down on Oakland and back the A's just because the stadium fad says you have to have a new one is sad and a mystery to me. But the Oakland area is a great place to build a stadium, we may not be on a strip or be closer to water but that complex could be a great complex for baseball.
The Yankees have a super star and they like having super stars. The A's don't like to pay their players. They used to have super stars a long time ago. They could have a good team and stadium in Oakland but want to make big money and maybe the Fisher/ Wolfe try to sell the team or sell or let a city/ county own some of the team if they'll build the A's a big time stadium.
The Dodgers are up and down but the A's need to do some big time rebuilding. The Raiders can learn from winning teams and try to pay star players.
Hey NY nice to hear from you again!,
You're right NY! it's looking for negative picture/ things and not too fair to predict failure before a game snap.
The new regime has done some big things this year. Yes, the season hasn't started yet so we don't know what will happen!
But they're also copying the other new regime's systems/ bad decisions when it comes to a game plan.
you're right! its' being unfair to criticize them before 1 game but they also seem to be stuck in NFL way/ conservative ways and ideas that hasn't really turned the team around in fact may've helped them stay mediocre.
No, I'm not putting down and giving up on them Raiders because they don't have a chance to make the playoffs in '24.
I'm not being a DEFEATIST because they don't have a lot of pro bowlers
I'm not stuck in the past and trying to look for reasons to put down on them.
I'm criticizing them because once again, they've decided to do it the NFL way and be as conservative and they've not been honest or committed to Raidernation.
They have an obsession with reaching in the draft.
they refuse to copy Al's love of DBs' and won't sign or draft an elite DB.
They bring in stars but get rid of the talent that might help them win more games.
They also have made some good moves but also, decisions that haven't helped this team win and sometimes even turned around and ruined their own plans:
1. give up 2 high draft picks for 1 of the NFL's best WRs' then let the best QB to help walk?
2. to not just draft or trade for a top RT and constantly bring in average players to TRY and find a starting NFL RT?
3. to claim they have a top DL or pass rusher but refuse to trade/ sign top veteran CBs to help the DL get sacks.
IDK, Nate, I'm not saying Hardigree did a good job, but he was calling plays (including trick plays) that we never saw from McDaniels and it allowed the offense to wake up to some degree. McDaniels was fully to blame for that mess.
My biggest concern now isn't at QB, it's, as you say, Getsy. We pretty much know what we have at QB. Whichever guy steps up (Minshew or a better version of AOC), we will be better at QB than last year.
Getsy failed in Chicago, which has to be a low point in anyone's career. He now has much more to work with but is that enough.
Losing Jacobs was a shame, but I get it. We will see how that plays out, but I believe most GMs prefer to cycle younger players at RB. That works for many teams. Jacobs is an exception.
As for Derek Carr, IMO he is NOT a system QB. Many HCs and OCs tried to make him that, but his best moments were under Bill Musgrave as OC and Bisaccia and Greg Olsen after Gruden left. I never liked Olsen (he runs ZBS) but he loosened the Gruden grip and allowed Carr to flourish.
Funny you mention bringing back Ryan as an assistant. Ryan and Graham both like coverage defenses. Ryan once sent 11 players into coverage on a critical play when he was DC for the Raiders. He's liked by players, but he sucks as a defensive play caller. IMO, it was AP who turned up the heat on the defense last year, and that's why the Raiders defense stepped up at the end of the season. AP won't allow them to stray... and neither will Crosby.
Al Anon, it's been my experience that if you have to say you're not xyz, then you're probably xyz. I find your posts strangely negative toward current regime, but you are also unwavering in your defense of past regimes which failed miserably. Your fixation with pro bowlers (so-called "star players") and spending lots of money for them is well documented here. Saying that's not so now is a bit moot.
Raiders have lots of "stars." They don't get voted to the PB because the Raiders have been a losing team. It's a popularity vote. The Pro Bowl has become a joke!
To NY Raider,
L.V. can win without pro bowlers? pro bowlers don't really matter that much?
So you just coach 'em up!? So, why is K.C. still on top and the Raiders aren't being put in playoff race talk?
Because they won't spend more on star FAs' they have to find ways to win and its' not easy and these new regimes haven't been able to coach up good/ average guys well enough to be contenders yet.
The AFC West isn't up for grabs and if L.V. is no.#2 fine but its' a short lead. because Denver has some good units- LACs' are rebuilding but has an elite HC.
The strange thing is media keeps hyping the Raiders and putting down on Denver and the LACs' but they don't hype any playoff run.
If the D-line is another strength its' good, not great. They refuse to spend on more depth Denver spent more than we did and drafted a good edge rusher(J. Ellis) and they have a secondary and L.A. needs a star NG because they already have K. Mack and N. Bosa and they may also have some depth on the DL.
Media keeps saying Denver has busts at QB. .L.A. has an elite QB but is missing the usual star receivers the Chargers sometimes have.
Denver has a strong run game to help their young QBs' while L.V. backs will be needed badly to help their QBs'. The Chargers are a mystery right now.
Raiders have very good receivers. The Chargers don't have those star TEs' and WRs' but Rice and McKonkey could be stars. Denver is. o.k. at WR. C. Sutton will be the leader if he comes back from contract dispute, rookies T. Franklin and Sieve will need time to learn with Franklin maybe being a good player and Sieve being a star.
The Raiders' and Chargers are rebuilding their OLs. Denver has a good, not great OL.
Linebackers? its' a mystery but I think Denver is the best of the three with the Chargers 2nd.
The Raiders' best:
DL-
WR-
TE-
ST- D. Carlson and A.J. Cole
The Chargers best:
OL
TE
DL
Safeties
The Broncos' best:
DL
Secondary
Run game
OL
Pretty funny that a guy who lives by conspiracy theories doesn't see that the pro bowl has become nothing more than a PR gimmick.
You're trying to sell us stock in a company that makes widgets.
Raidernation!,
NY Raider: I think you got good points but they're not strong ones. I know you want teams/ owners to accept their parts in good/ bad issues but you just don't see that there is more to Al's issues than W/ L's and the plain facts and what seems to be the facts.
You're right, the Pro Bowl is a joke. I don't think the owners want the game anymore so they won't have to worry about stars being injured. But I do think pro bowl players are great and the Raiders really need some. Yea, some teams can coach 'em up and they aren't the only thing but they can really help a lot. But I do like the events and contests they have at the Pro Bowl.
Raider Nate: It's good you aren't into "preseason" hype because media is giving us a ton of it! They tell us how bad Denver and LACs' are how K.C. is elite but the Raiders are talking about beating them this year. but the same media claims they don't have depth in the big areas or aren't good enough to be in the or playoff picture or have the staff/ talent to be playoff ready yet.
Al-Anon-
Can we sack the QB without a good secondary?
Is Denver's DL as average as media claims or did they rebuild it?
Is Denver's QB unit as bad as media claims or and if B. Nix is so bad why did some fans want the Raiders to draft him?
Can Harbaugh turn the Chargers into a winner?
Is K.C. weaker than last year? they lost some good players.
Do the Raiders really have a good defense?
Can we compete with K.C.?
Is O'Connell our guy or is Minshew the best bet for a playoff run?
Is LACs' OL the best in the West?
Who has the best young edge/ DE in the West?:
Koonce- L.V.
Crosby- L.V.
#56- K.C.
Browning- Den.
Ellis- Den.
J. Bosa- LACs'
Should we sign/ trade for a veteran CB?
Can Wilkins help Crosby and Koonce pressure the QB?
NY and Nate...these are questions for the AFC West and it looks like we haven't gotten
Sorry, that makes no sense. You support your conspiracies of why Al couldn't win because why? "Facts are facts"? That's it?!
It's a results-based industry. Al Davis knew that. You're the only one suggesting there were "extraordinary" circumstances preventing the Raiders from winning which Al couldn't overcome. I've begged you to provide any corroboration of that, even in crayon if you can find it.
We're not talking about a team that routinely made the playoffs and couldn't push through the final barrier. We're talking about a team which epically failed to win more games than it lost for decades.
You're full of excuses that can't be supported by any facts, but you continue to gaslight us by saying it's based on facts.
Al Anon, the consistent theme in your posts about Al Davis having all these great teams but the NFL impeding his ability to win suggests that Al Davis wasn't in control.
That's nonsense! No owner in the NFL was more in control.
Your so-called "facts" are void of the truth.
Jon Gruden loses a major opportunity in his case against the NFL. 3 Nevada Supreme Court justices denied his claim for the court to hear his case and sent it back to the NFL Arbitration process in a 2-1 vote. This means the details of his suit (and potential proof) will not be made public, and Gruden will not have a "fair" trial against the league.
There is still hope for Gruden though, he is going to appeal this 3 panel decision, and request all 7 judges in the Nevada Supreme Court hear his case and make a decision if they will send it back to the courts or to arbitration.
Remember, the reason it is in the Nevada Supreme Court is because the League appealed the ruling of Clark County District Court's ruling that Gruden show evidence of “specific intent” or an act designed to cause a particular result in May 2022.
Gruden's argument is absurd to me that League Arbitration, in which Goodell oversees and is named a defendant (as Gruden's complaint states), is a fair process in an employer-employee dispute. Any arbitration between the League and an employee is not overseen by Goodell, Arbitration Judges and hearings are required to be independent of either party. The point of arbitration hearings is to protect both parties from the public eye. It is like Locker Room meetings, you don't want to air all of your dirty laundry in public. Gruden is trying to publicly burn down the League, as they publicly burned him down. I can't say I blame him. But if he has evidence the League did this, and doesn't get a public hearing, what's to stop him from releasing this evidence the way the League did?
If the NV Supreme Court rules that this is not a fair process, it could do irreparable damage to the League's Arbitration process with the Player's, Coach's, Referee's, and other League Unions. Even though Gruden is no longer an "employee" in the League, this would still set a dangerous precedent because the events of his lawsuit he filed happened while he was an employee.
With that said, I think this may be then end of Gruden's suit. He will be forced to go to Arbitration, and he won't pursue it because he wants the evidence to be public. It isn't about the trial, it's about embarrassing the League the way his own actions came back to embarrass him.
Yes, its' a results based industry and the Raiders USUALLY, showed the results of their actions and work and were good at letting fans know the results of their game plans.
But its' a PARITY league meaning a good team can make it to the playoffs and mediocre teams can get a wildcard and beat good teams sometimes average teams can win a division title.
But your idea- 'No, its' bad decisions and dysfunction and guys leaving a team(losing talent)'- and that's true, that can ruin a team- but IF a team has a genius who doesn't USUALLY let mistakes and losing talent bother him and he has a good staff and outstanding roster his team would be a good-, mediocre or good team.
Al didn't control everything toward the last years of his rule! like many owners the NFL and their partners were changing rules and getting more bold for new stadium ideas.
Owners mostly are about money and investment and politics and they tell the NFL what to do. they want all owners to cooperate but Al didn't...that's why the new NFL even them...had problems with him.
The Raiders became the worst team in football without any logical reason.
Fans want to support this NFL system because of the 9 year slump. they still think the modern NFL is better than Al's era.
The hoped supporting a new regime would take them back to glory but now they are probably questioning their decisions.
They've seen losing, mediocrity and hype and still think they are rebuilding and will be a contender.
Fans are loyal and that's not a good thing if they don't see changes and results. they wanted to win but the NFL doesn't seem to want them to.
No NY, good teams don't just get well they do a team can become a loser after a SB but when a team is hated by the league and it is a winner then after a lot of feuding with the owners suddenly can't win then something might be wrong.
Nate, we all know Gruden got screwed but I'm not sure who else cares. Gruden will never be able to even the score with the league. The league has way bigger fish to fry with their recent antitrust case which could cost each team nearly $500M.
________________
Al Anon, you continue to make no sense to me. Your "facts" are fluid and not based on, well, facts. With every new excuse you change the goalpost and demonstrate more and more that you don't understand what happened to the Raiders. Often what you suggest contradicts everything we saw... as plain as the nose on our faces.
You're asking us not to believe our lying eyes and just simply take your word for it. And you don't even realize how ridiculous that sounds.
Al Davis traded Jon Gruden and left us with the dumbest coach in America. That appears to be where you start rewriting history and blaming the NFL.
I'm not sure you will ever recover from this lapse you are in.
Al Davis Happy Birthday!!!!
Al Anon-
The Oakland Raiders hired him to be a HC but he later became owner/ GM. he helped cause a lot of things whether he was supporting it or not. he caused the NFL-AFL merger and he also helped minorities and women get high positions in the NFL.
He built one of the best franchises in pro sports history that has one of the biggest fan bases in the world. he has seen over 20 future HOF'ers on his team and he drafted 13(C-Wood, T. Brown, Long, Biletnikof, Branch, Allen, Guy, Stabler, Upshaw, Shell, Casper, LACs- Alworth and Mix).
The NFL was an outstanding league before Al was hired by the Chargers and Raiders it was getting to be great after the merger.
Al wasn't just about the Raiders he helped with players and coach's money problems and some ex-players and coach's medical bills.
He helped the NFLPA and the backed the players in battles with the other owners.
The Raiders may've started to fall but the NFL won't forget Al and what he did for it.
RIP Al!,
Happy Birthday!
Secondary: Al made DBs' more important with the "Bump and Run" system. the new regimes don't seem to think DBs' are that important anymore from Reggie to A.P. they want to give rookies time to learn while letting veteran DBs' walk around as free agents.
Linebackers: the Raiders just don't make a big deal out of the position like other teams but Al always build decent units. in the 80's he had elite units(Millen, Martin, Hendricks and Robinson) the new regimes don't see
DL: The old Raiders look for athletes, washed / unwated veterans, top star/ unknown college DLs' to draft. they've built some awesome DLs' and have had some outstanding players. the new regimes have had some outstanding players but have never been able to have one unit that could help them win with defense. they've had good DL's but not a top 10 line. they've had big years from star players but not a DL that was top 10.
Happy Birthday Al!!
Al Anon-
Wow! you
Reggie was going to take us back to 'glory'
The Pats' guys are from the great Patriots' dynasty and will bring that culture/ swagger to L.V.
Gruden/ Mayock are going to bring that old Raiders system/ culture with NFL/ other football places(like college coaches) to turn this mess around and build a winner.
A.P. and Telesco are going to build a winner and we didn't even
we didn't even need to interview elite HCs' like Bellichick or Harbaugh. and A.P. is liek Bellichick he will coach'em up! we don't even need starting CBs' because J. Jones will be a pro bowler and shut down offenses
Dude!...either they think that the NFL is the only ones that know football and that inexperienced staff is the best way to build a team or they just think Al caused all the problems and it will take maybe, a little bit longer to clear out and fix all the Al culture and dysfunction and they'll build a contender.
We've heard this before! its' like a comedy routine where only NFL/ Bellichick/ conservative ways will work even if they haven't yet!
Al only got what two chances to fix his mess- which I don't believe was his fault at all anymore; but these new regimes aren't the fault its' Al's culture and maybe a few bad players or coaches that need to be let go and we're gonna turn this thing around.
Dude...you're defending a program- a scam, a ...a bunch of guys the NFL sent to the Raiders by MD's advisers to make a 'model franchise'; they want them to run the team and keep things working..to look like an NFL team but aren't asking these guys to work hard to build a winner or care if they want to or just keep it working and get paid.
We need to tell the NFL to leave the Raiders alone! and this new regime to go for it and do it like Al/ themselves so we can have a winning team! we need to ask the Raiders why do they keep doing the same things over then tell us they're going to be a better team when they haven't done much to show they are right, and tell them to stop listening to media hype about how good the new regime is before they play one game- just like putting them down is wrong before they've played one game. we can win with new ideas but maybe Al's and other old legends ideas are good too. the AFC West will be tough we don't need hype to make us support the Raiders. Raiders have talent they need to try spending more/ using more talent this year.
Al Anon, you're the one here defending a losing culture.
The changes I am currently supporting are unproven and not without concern. I've never said otherwise. You defend a culture of losing with made up "facts" about the NFL preventing the Raiders from winning for decades.
Again, that's as ridiculous as it sounds. You need a new schtick.
Ironically, the one recent occasion the NFL clearly did interfere, you never even mention. I'll leave you in suspense because I'll bet you don't know.
Reminder to Al Anon to provide a link or a quote from one source (human or A.I.) that corroborates any of your NFL conspiracies.
If can't support a single thing you say, how can expect or have any creditability?
I don't think anyone's message on this board has been to play conservatively; it goes against Raiders' philosophy of of "We're going to take what we want, when we want;" a philosophy established by Al himself. This is why I welcome Antonio Pierce and company with open arms, and why I think he is going to succeed.
I have been on here multiple times in the past decade + arguing that we need to get rid of "systematic" coaching; and go back to coaching to the strengths of the players and roster. We first had this coach in Hue Jackson. Hue is a master at coaching to the strength of the team; and quite frankly, I'm surprised he is not in the NFL right now. But that is the other side of the coin isn't it? He is not in the League right now because everyone knows he took advantage of Al in his decline of health; and definitely took advantage of Mark Davis until Reggie McKenzie came along. Hue's kryptonite was trying to be the GM and Head Coach.
It wasn't until the Raiders hired Del Rio/Norton Jr/Musgrave that they went back to the philosophy of coaching the strengths of the team; and had Carr not broken his leg, I believe we had a legitimate shot at a Super Bowl in 2016. Then we went back to systematic coaching with Gruden/McDaniels.
Antonio Pierce has gone back to the philosophy that works, coach to the strengths. He has surrounded himself with coaching that will do the same thing. He has definitely brought back the "We are going to take what we want, when we want" mentality as well; and like Reggie, is building a bully where the QB must go down, and go down hard. This is what the Raiders need, this is where we are going to see a different team this year. Just Win, Baby
Hue Jackson's not in the league because he presided over the worst record for a non-expansion team in NFL history. He's a nut and was certainly not as good as he thought he was.
Al hired the absolute worst head coaches after Gruden. Some were terrible before Gruden. They only had a chance succeed because of Al and his abilities, but that diminished quickly post-Gruden. And he clearly tried too hard to compensate for the shortcomings of his coaches by overpaying for players who only wanted to get paid. That's exactly what Al Anon wants us to do now. Overpay for overrated players.
The Raiders had a moment with Jack Del Rio, who got caught lightning in a bottle with Bill Musgrave and his ability to coach Derek Carr. Musgrave was the closest Dereck Carr ever came to reviving his college spark. But Del Rio stupidly let him go and he was ultimately exposed by a bad defense which he presided over. Funny, but Ken Norton Jr. has had success since he failed with the Raiders. Just another example of how far the Raiders fell.
Don't kid yourself. Pierce is his own person. He may evoke the Raiders great past but this guy was a winner as a Giant and success has followed him, if for no other reason than his approach to leadership and life.
Alpha Dog in the house!
Al Anon thinks Raiders should spend more money on overrated players. He doesn't understand there are players on the current roster who will chew off their arm to play for AP.
Al Anon only sees paper stats and fake pro bowlers (a modern era farse). "Bring back the losing formula" as he predicts and actually stumps for more failures. He's stuck in a cult. Only, instead of Charles Manson, it's the ghost of Al Davis.
Part I
to NY Raider,
Nobody loses for 9 years..not even a bad team.
Did the Lions, Bengals, Jaguars, Texans or Commanders EVER have a roster anywhere near as talented as Al's 9 teams and didn't at least win 8-9 games in a season.
Look at your NFL teams! they move when they want to, they pressure their cities to give them public money, they've given in to shady the gambling industry, they over charge for a mediocre product and are pricing fans out of the live games.
Al was a very good businessman as you saw with the deals he tried to make in the L.V. area to keep the Raiders there. he could make deals on his own and he kept the team going and kept the budgeting and money in a workable situation and he was trying to win.
What EVIDENCE do I have that the NFL has tampered and you do know that they did do something to the Raiders in the past?:
Elway trade in '83- the Raiders' offer was way better than Denvers'.
Coach Peyton- if Al was so bad to work for why did other people need to tell Peyton not to work for him?
moving to L.A.- when Oakland Mayor said she wouldn't give them public money.
telling Reggie to fire ALL of Al's employees and players.
advisers- what advise are they giving us?- to fire ALL of Al's employees/ players?, to look for discount- good deal guys?, don't spend big on FAs stars and don't draft the best player available and reach for guys who fit a system?
moving the Raiders to Las Vegas when they had a stadium that could be renovated or rebuilt in Oakland.
the refs- 70s' to '22- I don't know why the NFL even bothers anymore but they used to really hit them with unfair flags. after Gruden/ Mayock's regime they seem to be much better with the Raiders.
the defending AFC Champions not able to win the next year?- oh yes teams can miss the playoffs and lose for a few years after going to the playoffs-, but how do you play some of the most mediocre teams and not win at least 8 games in a season the next year?
scheduling- west coast losing team with the schedule of a playoff team?
the merger- Al helped build one of the best leagues in pro sports. he wanted to turn the AFL into the best league but the other AFL owners agreed to merge with the NFL.
the media- what has the media done for the Raiders?- well, nothing much different from any other team sometimes but mostly they try to put down and attack them when they can- these are some of the things they've said about Al's Raiders:
1. nobody wants to play for Al? when did that happen!? I though a lot of guys wanted to be Ra'dah's? you mean because of Al..., oh yea and the ugly old stadium guys didn't want to be Raiders anymore?
2. there's a dysfunction or toxic/ cancerous poison in Oakland's locker room and it is coming from Al.
3. the culture is destroying itself, Al's paranoia and old school ways ruined the Raiders.
But NY, how is it that they blame Al..Al is the problem and how better the Raiders will be when he's gone but there seems to be more to it than a falling legend past his prime and ruining his team- how is it that:
1. the NFL owners were upset with Al/ Raiders over the early-mid 2000s'?
2. the NFL was upset because Al was suing city of Oakland, city of L.A., the NFL and the Buccaneers?
3. the players and NFLPA was happy Al was helping them and the owners were upset about it.
4. Al voted against the owners' new CBA and that upset them.
dude...if a guy will play for less money to win a championship wouldn't he play for a dysfunctional owner that is trying to help the players get benefits and more money!?
Al worked the system and there are a lot of questions about the slump, the NFL and why the team lost just like a lot of fans question Al's mental situation and culture.
there is more to it than just losing and dysfunction and more to it than conspiracies.
The NFL and the Raiders had issues
Wow,
That was a jaw dropping senile moment of a rant if there ever was one…and there seems to be a few of them happening lately. To all the anons and the gent that posts as more than one anon and talks to himself….. old hat seen it here before with ol Panty the pedo get a grip…
Moving on, I really have enjoyed Maxx’s podcast where we can hear from someone on the team that gets me jacked for this upcoming season also Chris Longs podcast where he interviewed his dad, Howie had some pretty interesting takes on this upcoming season. Just have to get through the dog days of July!
Aussie,
I agree with Chris Longs' and Madd Maxx's podcast. Both had Howie on recently, and they were amazing interviews. Maxx has also had Antonio Pierce on, and it is easy to see why the players rally around him, I wanted to run through a brick wall by the time it was over.
If you haven't listened to either podcast, do yourself a favor and go listen.
Davante Adams recently talked about the Chargers PR putting his image in a trash can, and calling the Raiders Garbage in their schedule release. Even though his best games have been against the Charger, the lack of respect has fueled his fire against them. Then Davante went Will Smith, and slapped them in the face and said, "KEEP MY NAME OUT YA MOUF!"
Al Anon you have nothing. You make stuff up as you go along. I'm sure you believe it and type it with conviction but you make very little sense.
9 years this...
Elway that...
The Reds this....
Scheduling! The Merger! The Players Association! What are you talking about?
Nobody wants to play for Al? Who said that? Your strawman crap isn't working.
I said the big names... your so-called "star" players that Al signed ALL wanted to get paid! He mortgaged the Raiders future by overspending and deferring those big salaries. If you don't know about that you are blind to the truth.
It's not as simple as saying "nobody loses for 9 years." Al Davis went way out of his way to gamble the Raiders future and he lost.
Wake up!
The new Raiders have a habit of talking trash about what media/ somebody said about them. but they don't try and build a good team that can make the playoffs a
the media then tells us about the same time how much better the Raiders are and how bad other teams in the AFC West(LACs' and Broncos) are and how they are so closer to being able to beat K.C.
The AFC West and the Raiders:
K.C. is elite their offense is one of the best and their defense is missing another edge/ DE and an OLB but the secondary is good.
LAC's are rebuilding but they have an elite HC. they will soon have a culture like the old Raiders' and Y2K 49ers. they have a franchise QB and two good pass rushers and may soon have one of the best OLs' in the NFL. their secondary is o.k. with a top safety but isn't that good and they need help at LB but with Harbaugh as HC they could start getting better fast.
Broncos- they got rid of a lot of good players causing them to go down in the league some. but they have two young ex-high pick QBs' and an elite HC, Denver wants one of them to lead the team. they drafted an edge/ DE, some FA DLs' and some WRs'. they look better than media is making them they aren't that good but they have some good areas.
The Raiders did good rebuilding the team this year but they aren't much better than the other 2 AFC West teams. don't know why you keep letting the media hype you because they will later claim this team isn't a playoff team.
Its' a rumor or my opinion, but I think the NFL has say in the team and is telling them to be conservative, cheap and good citizens, don't spend on star FAs', shut up and make money! We have issues and the NFL may have helped build this team and is happy they don't act like the old Raiders.
Who said players didn't want to play for Al?: You/ you guys did...years ago! you said his dysfunction and the losing scared players away.
the media did- they said his dysfunction, toxic locker room, culture, paranoia, being stuck in the past Oh!...and the ugly old Coliseum made players not want to play for him.
so teams don't need big name, star, elite players?:
list of guys who have lit us up over the years.
T. Hill K.C. and Mia
P. Mahomes
V. Miller
Herbert
Manning
K.C. defenses
dude...these are elite players, guys the Raiders refused to draft/ sign! they aren't average-good veterans K.C. isn't coaching guys up and letting elite players go! dude...please!
The '03-'11 Raiders were loaded with talent! they were a very good team after being elite in '02! they were one of the best teams in the league but STOPPED winning! that makes no sense!
You think Al ruined this team! you think all other new regimes were just bad! you think they FINALLY got it right with A.P! NY!, the Raiders were winners under Al, sometimes good teams fall and they'll lose some that's not strange, but for a few years not years- and with a genius/ legend and good coaches it doesn't make sense- if mediocre teams can win after years of losing why can't Al's Raiders!? ugly/ old stadiums, dysfunction may cause some losing but not that much for a good team with a genius GM/ owner!
NY and Aussie you guys have some good points but if you want to back the NFL and blame Al for everything without questioning the NFL's business then maybe you should take this FYI-
No pro sports team!...even the bad ones...lose for 9 straight years!
Why do you continue to gaslight us with statements you can't possibly support? The Raiders never refused to draft/sign any of those players. When were any of them available to the Raiders?
Very little of what you post is steeped in truth, and often a direct falsehood. Is it your intention to post lies?
Are you for real, repeating that ridiculous line that nobody can lose for 9 straight years?
If Al Davis did such a great job over that nine-year period, why did he need to hire six head coaches over that span?
Your recollection of events is so distorted, you just assume a conspiracy. That's the only explanation your brain can muster.
It's not rational.
The '03-'11 teams were loaded with talent?
2003 was probably the best line up in this season, but the Raiders went 4-12. Rick Mirer was the QB because Gannon got hurt. T Brown, J Rice, C Garner and the O-Line of Robbins, Middleton, Sims, Collins, and Kennedy. Defensively we still had C Wood, R Wood, Nap Harris, and Trace Armstrong. 4-12, couldn't win with this line up and lost T Brown, J Rice, L Kennedy, Mo Collins, B Robbins, Middleton, Trace Armstrong, R Gannon, Rick Mirer, and Rod Woodson. 2004, we had Kerry Collins at QB, and went 5-11.
Lets see, after that, our teams' records were:
2005: 4-12 Notable players-K Collins at Q, Nnamdi at CB, Derrick Burgess at DE
2006: 2-14 Notable players-R Moss at WR (Walter was QB), Gallery at LT, L Walker at RT, Burgess at DE, and Nnamdi at CB
2007: 4-12 Notable players-Fargas at RB, Curry at WR, Burgess at DE, Nnamdi at CB
2008: 5-11 Notable players-JaMarcus first year, Fargas, Curry, and Nnamdi
2009: 5-11 Notable players-JaMarcus, Louis Murphy, Nnamdi
2010: 8-8 Notable players-J Campbell, Veldheer, McFadden, Nnamdi
2011: 8-8 Notable players-J Campbell/C Palmer, Veldheer, no stand out names on Defense.
Nate, that list speaks for itself. Randy Moss was on the Raiders but never played for the Raiders. None of those QBs were worthy, and there's two years you couldn't even list a QB. Al Davis thought JaMarcus Russell was Patrick Mahomes. I don't even remember Louis Murphy.
I'm still trying to figure out why Al Anon thinks the Raiders couldn't possibly lose for nine years on their own volition.
Because they did.
Then they were left rudderless by Al Davis and spun off many more years of losing, breaking records for failure along the way.
It's undeniable to any rational observer, yet we continue to be gaslighted with conspiracies of NFL involvement. And everything we're told is absent a single written word from media, pundits, friends or enemies of the Raiders.
Al Davis made all the decisions. Period! To suggest the NFL had any control over Al Davis is admit you don't know who Al Davis was.
He made many mistakes during that period. Forget football acumen for a moment. Davis hired and fired head coaches at a pace that precluded success. His coaches were sub-par and he paid for that over and over and over (6x) in nine years. The list speaks for itself.
Al Anon likes to tell us how great those coaches were outside of the Raiders org (which is a separate debate), but all that does is diminish Davis further, IMO. Lots of coaches and players enjoyed success outside of the Raiders. It's unavoidable, yet also revealing and condemning of the Davis and the Raiders.
The theories get deeper and darker, to the point nothing makes sense. The stories go off course, on tangents that only one person can understand.
So how could the Raiders possibly lose for nine straight years? Look no further. The revolving door of coaches speaks for itself.
If the NFL was to blame, why would Davis fire so many coaches? You'd think he stand behind his head coach in solidarity against the NFL.
Coaching mistakes only scratch the surface but are perhaps the most defining in terms of failures. Davis hit a wall of his own making... and the Raiders continued to pay for many years after his death.
Sorry Al Anon, Davis wasn't always the Raiders hero, and the earth is not flat.
To Raider Nate,
Al Anon-
In '11 J. Campbell was playing well but got hurt, C. Palmer was a top NFL QB! DMAC was a good NFL RB and Bush was a pro bowl level RB. Now, you don't think that kind of O could make the playoffs? I think that was a top 10 O!
NY says it was mediocrity and that Hue was a bad HC! media says these guys were athletes and track stars and overpaid stars!
We DID lose to Tim Tebow/ Broncos when Al had passed away and we were trying to honor him with a playoff birth! That was a huge upset, in fact, one of the biggest even bigger than them beating the Steelers in a playoff game!
But the strange thing is- those Raiders were outstanding in talent over that 9 year period that most AFC teams except Cincy, Pitts and SD were close to them in talent. And when Al passed not only did they get upset by a mediocre Broncos' team, Oakland with the talent and coaching for some reason, couldn't win one game(Denver) and Al died without the Raiders honoring him with a playoff trip.
Now, I don't/ nobody knows the true answers- I see strange things and suspect corruption but the facts show W/ L's and its' easy to blame an old, losing GM/ owner.
Its' hard to know the true facts and if we were right listening to media or with conspiracies or questions against the owners/ league.
So, if a team was feuding with a league and you know they hated/ disliked Al, he was suing them, helping the NFLPA, voting against their new CBA, giving big guaranteed money to some of his players, was too slow getting a new stadium in Oakland and backed the players protesting the new CBA.
This was about '06-'10 now Oakland started losing in '03 but Al had already upset the NFL in '99 just being Al and supporting NFLPA boss Gene Upshaw.
Well, suddenly, the Raiders full of talent, a genius GM and good coaching can't win 5 games in '03 nothing strange sometimes SB teams lose but there are reasons that make sense. but the scheduling, the refs, players and coaches rejecting offers, media attacking things and losing games against some really terrible teams just seems more strange/ suspicious and questionable more than W/ L facts but other things.
no standout D-players '11?- I think SS T. Branch was a very good player, K. Wimbley had 9 sacks as an edge/ OLB, R. Seymore was a pro bowl DE, T. Kelly had 7 sacks as a DT, D. Bryant, S. Routt, M. Giadano had 5 picks as a FS, S. Lechler was a pro bowl P, Chris Johnson almost a pro bowl level DB.
Some of these guys were benched and then traded/ released when Reggie took over Why!? most front offices will look at their players for a year then get rid of them IF they aren't good players.
Please tell me what teams that you know of had this kind of talent and didn't win? in a PARITY league? Nate..come on man!!!
I can name some playoff teams Detroit, Arizona, Denver from '03-'11 that weren't close to Oakland's talent! but no, you thought Reggie was going to build a dynasty!? he fired ALL of Al's players/ staff and ruined this team and you think he HAD to do it to build a better one!...did he!?
media/ NFL told you you fans need to giv
Nate! we had a very good team in '11 in fact it was a playoff team. they never should've been fighting for a wild card but won the division.
Another rant. It's really not worthy of a response, but I find it extremely comical that you would single out Hue Jackson.
After the Raiders, Jackson became HC of the Browns.
His records with the Browns after being fired by the Raiders?
1-15
0-16
2-5
Fired!
He's never been a HC again.
Your perspective of what is good and what is bad is, well, really bad.
It doesn't matter if 3 players from the team made it to the pro bowl. That didn't make the Raiders a good team, nor a well-managed organization. They were neither.
Actually, the 2011 team finished 8-8 with the Chargers and Doncos, and lost a tie-breaker to both teams and did not make the playoffs that year. If they were such a good team, they would have outright won the division and made the playoffs. But they did not make the playoffs.
Al Anon is delusional thinking the Raiders were a good team during this period. Most of us were right here frustrating and agonizing over the Raiders repeated failures.
The funny thing is, if he thinks the team was so good, that's more of an indictment on the organization which, by extension, failed the team and its players.
He thinks the NFL was running the Raiders.
Cuckoo!
To NY and Raider Nate,
No, the NFL IS running them- NOW! not in '03-'11. back then NY, the NFL/ owners were TAMPERING with them!
from about '07-'11 they were intimidating Al and a few other team owners, the players and NFLPA boss Gene Upshaw for the group of billionaire owners who run the league!
Cuckoo?:
me, Cuckoo? what I believe-
1. accusing the NFL of corruption, tampering and intimidation of a person and team many fans know they hated/ had issues with for years.
2. being suspicious of these unknown advisers who allegedly, don't want to allow the wealthier Raiders spend on star FAs'.
3. defending a team/ person who literally built the modern NFL as being a victim of revenge, intimidation and corruption.
And you guys/ fans who think I'm Cuckoo- what do you believe?:
1. buying the NFL's vision for its' teams.. a scam- where almost all teams agree to:
cap salaries be conservative/ cheap- don't let player pressure owners into overpaying them.
look for ownership groups/ billionaires or corporations to own a stake in team.
charge outrageous ticket prices
pressure cities for public money
pressure/ threaten cities to get a new stadium
forcing(intimidation) the union(NFLPA) to ignore the politics of the players
2. listening to the Raiders once again, hype a new regime after years of seeing losing/ mediocrity but the SAME game plan.
3. to give a guy credit(Reggie) for making changes that haven't helped make the team any better after 10 years.
Raiders would win shortly after an overhaul has been waiting for over 12 years for a playoff win.
And me questioning this is Cuckoo?
* NY Raider "He thinks the NFL was running the Raiders"-, Yes NY, the NFL has been running some area of this team since '12:
1. they hired Reggie, not Al's friends
2. they moved us to Las Vegas for the SB and no other reason.
3. they told Reggie to fire all of Al's employees not MD.
4. they have set limits set on the Raiders' front office-
no old culture that's a "no no"
no politics don't worry about players' rights, just make money!
no speed, size or athletic guys a few but not a lot!
they cannot spend outrageously on star FAs'.
side with the league, don't go against them.
The NFL wants everybody working with the game plan; Its' basically a few who run the NFL and they don't need any problems. they want to make money, have political power and have a cap. they'll pay players well but not too much and not too many benefits too.
legal power- where they can't be sued.
money
political power where their stadium and money schemes support
investment- bring in a billionaire/ group to buy a stake in team so it will be more valuable. and try to get private deals for big money because you have to share it with the NFL.
CBA- they want a salary cap that will limit how much star players can make and how much guaranteed money they can make and they don't want to HAVE TO pay a lot of benefits to players and retired players.
note: Nate, thank you for remembering the loss to SD, yea, it seemed it didn't bother some of the Raider players. the Broncos loss made less sense, a terrible Broncos' team- Oakland should've steamrolled/ blasted them but somehow lost.
So you want a motive for tampering? I gave you what IMO...were the reasons but this one is plain disgraceful: losing to SD and Denver, missed the playoffs, Al not honored and the team's future unknown! this could be big time pay back from the NFL for all the lawsuits and feuding and for the new billionaire owners?...they get rid of a problem!
Al was still a genius-, he was fighting the NFL and backing the NFLPA and the players and you don't think that makes my conspiracy theories at least have some points?
The Raiders wanted to win for Al but they lost o.k., but a team that talented losing with just 2 games left and when they literally had the division rapped up is sad and strange.
The NFL can tamper with their teams.
With every word you demonstrate further that you have no idea what you're saying.
"they hired Reggie, not Al's friends."
Mark Davis sought counsel from Al's friends and advisors, like John Madden, who helped MD hire McKenzie, a former Raiders player and disciple of Ron Wolf, to repair the salary cap hell that Al Davis left the team in. Do you know who Ron Wolf is, or do you need that explained too?
McKenzie was brought in by Mark Davis to clean house, players and staff, and to recreate the magic that began Ron Wolf's career when he was a Raiders scout and they drafted players like Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Jack Tatum, Kenny Stabler, etc.
I don't have the time or patience to go through all your ridiculous remarks, but it's obvious you have no idea.
Raiders lost because they were bad. The more you prop up Al's players in his final 10 years, the more blame that falls to Al Davis for a decade of epic failure.
Wake up!
I'm sorry, but I don't like being gaslighted.
It amazes me how Al Davis strapped the organization with coaches like Callahan, Kiffin and Cable, Art Shell II and Hue Jackson. These guys were changed out like some people change their underwear, once a year, but we to keep learning from Al Anon how genius it all was.
It's obvious to anyone with a pulse that Davis hired these guys because he knew he could control them, but we quickly and decisively learned Davis was no longer capable of managing and coaching the team by himself.
The one guy who didn't get the memo was Kiffin, who got the overhead projector instead.
Somebody needs to give Al Anon the overhead projector, because he doesn't get it either.
I've been here and read other blogs and media over the last two decades and probably read thousands of posts but never have I seen everyone defend the genius of Al's final years... a period which brought us those horrible coaches, JaMarcus Russell and a billboard erected by diehard Raiders fans begging Al Davis to step down and hire a GM.
It would take extreme isolation not to see any of this unfold, as it appears Al Anon missed the entire decade but has come back to explain it to us.
Truly remarkable.
This is absolutely laughable. Some idiot on Yardbarker posted an article ranking the Raiders top five head coaches over the past 25 years. Counting down...
#5 Hue Jackson
#4 Rich Bisaccia
#3 Jack Del Rio
#2 Brian Callahan (the author doesn't even know it's "Bill" and Brian is Bill's son)
#1 Jon Gruden
What a joke. No mention that every one of them was either fired or traded.
Gruden is the ONLY one worthy of mention and Davis traded him at his peak.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/top_five_las_vegas_raiders_head_coaches_of_the_past_25_years/s1_17213_40650205
The Raiders bar is so incredibly low that we considered traded, fired and interim coaches the "best" coaches.
Jackson Powers-Johnson is starting the season/pre-season on the PUP list.
I was expecting good things from him this season, don't know what happened or why he is on the PUP list.
To NY Raider,
Al Anon-
Part I:
Hey Raidernation, how you guys doing? so you got a lot to say about my post! o.k., I got some questions for you comments:
Why would(SHOULD) MD "seek out" advise from people who were Al's friend if he intended to have AL'S employees fired?
did Al's friends and advisers think it was a good idea to fired their friends' players and staff?
Did Ron Wolfe know Reggie would fire ALL of Al's employees over 2 years?
what great things did Reggie do for us while he was GM?
Reggie went to Raiders to bring back talent like the old winning years(Stabler, Shell, Wiz and Tatum etc.)? then why:
1. fire Al's players the guy(with Ron Wolfe, Gruden and others) drafted/ signed these guys?
2. refuse to draft an elite DB and had mostly terrible-mediocre secondaries while running the team?
3. refuse to spend more on star FAs' who could make the team much better?
4. why did he fire Al's scouts(who were Al disciples)?...not bring in any from Green Bay or other winners like Pittsburgh?
5. although he did sign UDFAs', unwanted guys, problem guys and young FA vets...none were those ex-pro bowlers, older star vets or mediocre elite athletes that Al would keep and turn into stars. he signed
"Raiders were a bad team(Al's era)"?: In a PARITY league how does a team lose for 9 years? if they had a loaded roster and decent coaching who do they keep losing? when they get bad?
better question why did other "bad"/ mediocre teams get help from PARITY(win more) even those with mediocre rosters- why could they have at least 1 winning season over 9 years but not us.
if it was a PARITY league(early 00s') and that means game manager QBs', young inexperienced OCs' and a lot of decent-but not elite HCs' in the NFL you guys think Al couldn't compete with that?
Who Ron Wolfe was?: A media guy who Al hired and taught and was so smart he helped the Raiders a lot in fact was a huge part of their success in the 80s' but who taught him?
Jamarcus? they love to call him the biggest QB bust ever! and it sure wasn't a draft pick; Jamarcus wasn't the worst 1st round pick QB in the AFC West- much less in NFL history! and there are guys who had more playing time than him and didn't throw 10 NFL tds he at least had 23.
Billboard: fans were upset and fed up with losing and felt Al was the problem. he literally built this league and wasn't close to being stuck in the past. he had outstanding OCs' and DCs'. he also was helping the players against the other owners. which brings huge problems to media claims like:
1. no top star HCs'/ players wanted to work for him.
2. guys wanted to leave Oakland because of the dysfunction.
3. guys go to Oakland to get paid and retire and guys go to Oakland for their careers to die.
Well, Raiders were always the place were you tried make a comeback. a lot of losing teams/ dysfunctional staff make guys want to leave but there wasn't some mutiny or rally by the players to leave. if a guy got paid and screwed the team its' not the teams' fault its'...the players'.
More foolishness. You ignore facts and obvious results to gaslight us more. I'm going to change your name from Al Anon to Gaslight Al Anon.
You've taken hindsight and twisted it down three levels below conjecture = nonsense!
The simple truth is that Al Davis proved he was incapable of guiding the team to success in his final years. It's not conjecture. It's a proven fact. He made horrible decisions in coaching and in personnel.
After Al passed, the folks who failed the Raiders for a decade were let go. Why is that so hard to fathom? It was way past time to blow it up.
Facts are facts. You can't change the facts... as hard as you try.
What makes me laugh the most is that you think the formula that failed the Raiders during this period is the formula they need to get back to.
That's insane!
To NY Raider Part II
Al Anon-
Al strapped Raiders with bad HCs'?: In the PARITY NFL, allegedly, you could win with 'game manager' HCs'. if that's the case- if we had big talent, wouldn't that have been better for us? why could other mediocre teams win with average HCs' but we couldn't?
Al hired them because they were veteran HC's/ assistants who knew how to use the team's talent:
Shell- was hired to bring back that old Raiders' image of toughness like Del Rio.
Hue- was hired to bring some spark to the O
Cable- another big guy/ image of toughness and he knew the 'Zone blocking' scheme.
Callighan- maybe because he knew Gruden's system. its unfair to judge him or say Al didn't like him; maybe they didn't like each other but IMO...I don't think he liked the Raiders a lot.
Kiffin- an outstanding OC had a lot Al liked-; a recruiter, scout and OC. but he was immature and the Raiders had issues before he came and it didn't work out.
you haven't? I've seen a lot of posts and never in my years on the web have I seen such loyalty, silliness and being naive / suckers!
New Raiders regimes '12-present- just let us take over and we'll:
1. take Raiders back to glory
2. be a lot like the Patriots a contender
3. create a winning culture
that was 12 years ago!
Raidernation defends these guys far worse than I defend Al's era!:
they built a mediocre product since '16
they won't spend on top FAs'
they've reached in the draft, Bowers is only the 2nd elite player(Mack) since new regimes took over('12).
The tradition/ system of building good-top secondaries was ruined by them. we've had some of the worst in the NFL since '12.
Firing coaches like changing shorts?: Yea, all teams have time limits, Al had time limits too- he wanted to win bad. the losing didn't make sense and he, at 1st, blamed the HCs'. Like I posted IF they had talent what other reason could it be- at 1st?
Its great to keep the same staff for years when they're winning but when teams keep coaches too long it can be bad too- and you know how bad keeping on the same shorts can be!
Overhead projector?: Al got a laugh from the sports world for that 1! he was having some issues physically but I still think he was a genius. IMO...I think immaturity, Al's pride and outside things caused Kiffin to be fired.
Formula?: K.C.'s formula! fast RBs', track star WRs, fast edge/ DEs' and press CBs'! this is Al Davis football!
Dallas and S.F. like to load their rosters and they're winning too. the Patriots' dynasty? maybe they didn't load up and used coaching and system players more but they also talked elite players into playing for them for less money(Revis, Moss, Talib, Seau, D. Burgess). they loaded up on talent(except the Patriots) and they won! I thought that was a warn out/ old system?
The new Raiders' regimes don't load up(except maybe Reggie's era with Carr, Crabtree, Cooper and Murray on O), they get average guys and don't spend a lot on star players and don't have a lot of speed and they lose! th
Yikes! Here's my response PART II.
Even when presented with the facts, you continue to gaslight us with your uninformed talking points. You post like you just arrived on the scene and you're still gathering misinformation about the Raiders past and present.
It doesn't matter how many times the list of pricey free agents the Raiders signed is presented to you (including record contracts to Adams and Wilkerson), you continue to gaslight us with "the Raiders won't spend money." You have no idea how the salary cap works or that top players aren't always available to the Raiders on a whim.
Also, parity only has a chance to work when you make smart decisions in the draft and with coaching and other personnel. The Raiders have done none of that.
Spend! Spend! Spend!
That's as dumb as it sounds. Ask the NY Yankees how spending on "star players" has worked for them the last several years.
You think the Raiders have tried to emulate the Patriots, then you say that "KC does it the Al Davis way." KC has Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes!
Load up with WHAT free agents, exactly? The Raiders tap out with salary cap every year.
You're bat shit crazy! Your posts are mind-numbing.
Al wasn't trying to get a laugh when he fired Kiffin. That was a very serious and sad moment in Raiders' history. The Raiders dysfunction was on full display. Was that your best explanation? "Some issues" and "outside things"? No have no idea what happened.
Geez, man. Stop gaslighting us. Try some introspection.
"Kiffin- an outstanding OC had a lot Al liked-; a recruiter, scout and OC. but he was immature and the Raiders had issues before he came and it didn't work out."
Actually, it is quite well known that Al wanted Sarkisian (USC's passing coordinator at the time), Kiffin eventually was offered the job after Sarkisian turned it down because he was using it as leverage to oust Kiffin at USC. When USC let Kiffin go, Al hired him. The rest is history, Kiffin sabotaged himself with Al, by trying to undermine Al and Al was wanting to control how Kiffin coached.
Cable was hired after Kiffin because no one else would take the job at the time. Nobody would even interview for it because of how Al handled the Kiffin firing. Art Shell was hired for the same reasons, nobody else was even wanting to interview for the job. Both Cable and Shell respected Al, and Al helped Cable as HC. Art had been out of the game too long.
Callahan was fired when Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, and others on the team showed Al proof that Callahan changed the game plan and threw the Super Bowl to Gruden just to embarrass Al; a claim they still make today. Callahan, though he knew Gruden's system, was still under contract, but wanted to go with Gruden to Tampa. I do believe the League, and Gruden, interferred with the Super Bowl because much like the Tuck Rule game, the League did not want to hand Al a trophy when he had 13 lawsuits against the League. Again, Rice and Brown today have been vocal about Callahan sabotaging the Super Bowl, and proving it to Al Davis; a claim both the League and Callahan deny. We will never know since Al has passed, unless Mark Davis has that "proof" tucked away and willing to show it.
Hue was great when Al Davis kept that leash tight on him, and actually helped him as a HC. But when Al died, and Mark gave him free reign as GM too; Hue went cuckoo. I still believe that if Reggie McKenzie had kept Hue on as HC instead of Dennis Allen; both of their careers as a GM and HC would have been different, and the Raiders may have had a Super Bowl trophy. Just my opinion, I thought the players loved Hue, much like they do Antonio Pierce. The problem was Hue was not willing to work with others at that point. He went to Cleveland with no accountability either, and that ruined his NFL coaching career.
"New Raiders regimes '12-present- just let us take over and we'll:
1. take Raiders back to glory
2. be a lot like the Patriots a contender
3. create a winning culture"
The only 2 coaches who have said this were McDaniels and Gruden. McKenzie and Del Rio were actually doing #'s 1 and 3 when Mark fired them for Gruden. Bisaccia did this as an interim coach, and did more than Gruden was able to do. Same with Antonio Pierce, he was able to do more with what he had than McDummy. I guess Davante Adams is not a big FA player? I guess Maxx Crosby is not a big time player in the League either? I guess Christian Wilkins is not a big time FA DT? Gardner Minshew? Jakobi Myers? Andrus Peat? Robert Spillane? Jack Jones? Marcus Epps? I know some of these guys are not "big $$" players but we are not paying them peanuts either; and they are big contributors to the team. We even brought in Gallop to help Davante, but he retired because he knew he was going to be the #4 or 5 WR in this line up; and didn't want to just collect a check. He is an upstanding person for that, and not acting like Randy Moss, Warren Sapp, or Richard Seymor. So I don't understand the "Raiders won't spend big money" argument, when they have gone out this offseason and spent big money.
.
Nate, with all due respect, not sure I would agree that Kiffin "sabotaged himself." I would say Kiffin got sandbagged. I think Kiffin was caught in a situation which his job authority as HC was far less than he expected (far less than the NFL standard). IMO, Kiffin saw the dysfunction firsthand and wanted to change course for the betterment of the Raiders. That was his undoing. He wanted to draft Megatron over Russell (which he will forever be right - there's no putting that horse back in the barn). That was another mistake, i.e., thinking he could have any influence over the draft or his coaches. Davis had his own coaches on Kiffin's staff and they reported to Davis directly.
This period in Raiders' history was rife with dysfunction. Al Anon saying otherwise shows he lacks any understanding.
Al Davis was in complete charge of everything. There was no organizational hierarchy. It was Al Davis, then everybody else. That's well documented. Maybe Kiffin (son of Monte) thought he was special, but Kiffin was quickly dispatched and it led to several wasted years of losing with Russell.
There's no way to sugarcoat it. Al Anon slept through the entire decade and has come back to gaslight us about what happened.
Spending money was exactly what Davis did during that period, and we all saw (well, most of us saw) the results.
Oh what a tangled web Gaslight Al Anon is trying to weave. He wants to trick us into believing the big bad NFL is to blame. Nobody can lose for nine years! There's no such thing as parity because it didn't work for the Raiders... who made one bad decision after another for two decades.
The jury is still out on AP, but Al Anon has already predicted failure because he thinks the Raiders need to spend more money on window dressing pro bowlers which, as an all-star event, has jokingly become a popularity contest for uninformed fans like Al Anon.
.
PS Let's not be confused into thinking a multi-billion-dollar franchise can't walk and chew gum at the same time. When did litigation, the threat of litigation or other business issue(s) ever keep Davis from winning football games? He controlled football operations. No one else.
NY,
I say Kiffin sabotaged himself in the sense that when he saw he wasn't going to be completely in charge, he quit trying, ran vanilla plays, and wouldn't listen to Al. Yes, Al had his role in that too, with as you pointed out, was in charge of everything. But the open and blatant disrespect to Al from Lane is what got him axed and how he self-sabotaged that relationship.
Cable and Al had a terrific relationship, and that is why he was immediately hired after that, until Hue Jackson came.
The two most absurd things said was that Al's coaches were stand-out coaches in the NFL (far from it) and that the current Raiders do not spend big money on FA's.
.
Was Kiffin running "vanilla plays" to spite Al or because he got strapped with a child at QB who had no interest in learning the playbook?
Sure, Al liked Cable, but he also brought in Jackson who quickly undermined Cable's tenure as HC.
The whole period was rife with dysfunction.
If we're using hindsight, it's fair to say Cable and Jackson were bad coaches. The proof is what they've done since. Jackson was an epic failure in Cleveland and Cable has done nothing. Seahawks fans couldn't get rid of him fast enough when he was brought back to the Raiders.
Even with Al's help, these guys were bad choices and never going the excel as HCs.
Unfortunately, the bar was so low for Raiders fans that any coach who reached .500 was deemed "good". But when Al was alive, a .500 record got you fired. So he fired coaches every year.
There's no sugarcoating it, it was a sad and ugly period for the Raiders and for the man.
.
Gaslight Al Anon's mantra to spend more money on "star players" is a joke. The Raiders will reach their salary cap requirement this year just like every other team in the NFL.
Al Anon refuses to research anything, so I will do it for him...
Raiders have six players whose average salary is 8-figures (10M or more). That's the same number of players the KC Chiefs have making an 8-figure avg salary. No more, no less.
Three Chiefs top salary players include Mahomes, Chris Jones and Travis Kelce. I would bet any amount of money that Al Anon can't name another Chief who makes an 8-figure avg salary.
He can't even name the Raiders who make 8-figure salaries, and probably can't name more than one or two on any team.
His entire mantra to spend money and sign "star players" is completely hollow. It's a circus act.
Furthermore, if the Raiders commit to expensive free agents now it could hamper their ability to sign a QB next year.
Gaslight Al Anon doesn't get it. He has a bad case of tunnel vision. He's too busy trying to remake the 2005 season with Kerry Collins at QB, Randy Moss at WR, LaMont Jordan at RB and Derick Burgess on the edge. Those guys were stars! That team went 4-12!
Pick any team in that era. It was filled with "stars" and ended in failure. That's what he wants to remake for the current Raiders.
NY Raider and Raider Nate,
"PARITY is only supposed to work when you make smart decisions"?: no its' not! its to level the playing field(and the NFL more $). mediocrity can upset elite teams maybe even make the playoffs; the draft, salary cap and free agency was changed to help bad teams win more. its' not because they're just the best of the bad teams- but with PARITY they will sometimes win more/ make the playoffs.
not saying smart decisions aren't needed to win just that- were's the proof Al's decisions were worse than most other teams?
NY Raider-spend, spend spend?: for the past 12 years we've had a Bellichick system. but when you aren't very good you could use help and the best way to get it takes spending.
Nate "nobody wanted the job"?: was maybe..I can't prove it..the NFL TELLING guys not to work for Al! we know somebody told coach Peyton to say "no"- so you don't believe they wouldn't do other things!?
note: Nate, o.k. they're spending on players but not for the big star players to try and win. its' 1 star then get cheaper guys.
Nate -I don't think all contracts are/ were guaranteed! L.V. tries to be smart and sign
1 guy to big money hoping he carries his unit. the problem is L.V. won't spend on talent around him. Philly, S.F. and Dallas signs lots of stars hoping they can help win.
Nate- Al was 1 of the most iconic/ legendary and football men in NFL history don't you think coaches would want to learn from him? coach Peyton or Sarkasian wouldn't learn something?
Nate- again, its' not strange for a team to slump after a SB. but NOBODY goes on a 9 year slump! look at the guys you mentioned on your post- the '03 team had four HOF'ers and pro bowlers still there! 4-12 with those guys!? maybe but 8 losing seasons after that? when you had PARITY and most teams starting to win didn't have anything close to that?
NY yes we do copy the Patriots/ Bellichick, Steelers, Packers and Saints- they obey the NFL/ owners! yea K.C. has Reid and Mahomes and we had Al and J. Campbell and Hue and Campbell/ Palmer! our D was very good and our O was good and we lost to the Chargers and Broncos trying to honor Al. well, we'd been losing for years sometimes you win or lose but that's not the case! IMO...I think it was pay back for feuding/ CBA and they suddenly drop games to Denver and SD with the help of outside actions/ people.
NY if you don't spend you have a tougher time winning! only a few teams proved you could win without arrogant, drama queen star/ elite players! in our case we're mediocre if not bad and we need star players and they refuse to spend on them. they spend big on 1 guy and don't always guaranteed his contract, then they put him with average-good players but we don't have stars in other areas to give us the talent to win.
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Raiders have had a Belichick system for 12 years? Based on what? What does that mean? They play football? Not all birds have wings? Raiders hired a disciple of Ron Wolf, who had no affiliation with the Patriots.
Clearly, there's no reasoning with you. You have no basis or proof for anything you post, and your posts never evolve, even when your presented with facts. You have the Internet at your disposal but gaslighting keeps typing feverishly on your keyboard. You are stuck in 2005 and that's the best you can do. You come here to post fabrications.
Parity doesn't exist in a vacuum, as you clearly believe it does. It can ONLY work if bad teams are smart with the draft opportunities afforded them.
Google "salary cap" and you will see each team spends the same. It's really quite revealing, you know, this new invention called the Internet.
"Were's the proof that Al's decisions were worse than other teams?"
How can you possibly be so ridiculous to ask that question? Have you been in a coma?
He fired his head coach every year! Clearly, even he thought his decisions were bad.
His coaching choices and bad decision-making led to record-breaking failures.
Fella, Wake up! Or you're gonna miss another decade.
Dylan Laube is being lauded at camp.
Koonce says he's a baller.
Hondo Carpenter wrote "Laube has a relentless work ethic..."
Also, it was said that other players feed off his energy.
Sound familiar?
This is the new Raiders. This isn't Belichick's system (which was mindlessly suggested), it's not the Patriot way, it's not Al Davis' team which failed to make a playoff run for nine straight years. It's not a system which high-priced free agents are brought in as celebrity contributors for stat sheets.
Live or die, the Raiders are as blue-collar as it gets in today's NFL. This is Antonio Pierce's team.
Less than 10 days until live action.
"Nate- again, its' not strange for a team to slump after a SB. but NOBODY goes on a 9 year slump!"
The Raiders did it, so to say NOBODY goes on a 9-year slump is false, because that is exactly what the Raiders did. I can name 2 other teams who have done the same too, the Bucs, after their Super Bowl gift from Callahan to Gruden went into a slump, with only 2 wildcard appearances and an average record of 5-11. That is until they grabbed Brady and won their first Super Bowl that wasn't given to them. The Los Angeles Chargers have big time slumped after their Super Bowl appearance and loss to the 49ers. The Washington Red ... errr. Commanders haven't won since 1991, and have almost been as equally horrible as the Raiders. The Cincy Bengals (until recently) were pretty bad after their loss to the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I just named you 5 teams who went into 9+ year slumps after a Super Bowl win or appearance; and there are others, you just refuse to research that.
" Nate, o.k. they're spending on players but not for the big star players to try and win. its' 1 star then get cheaper guys....look at the guys you mentioned on your post- the '03 team had four HOF'ers and pro bowlers still there! 4-12 with those guys!? maybe but 8 losing seasons after that? when you had PARITY and most teams starting to win didn't have anything close to that?"
Only Al Davis was spending $$ on one big name player and surrounding that player with mediocrity. Mark has spent big with Carr, Crabtree, Maxx, Josh Jacobs, Davante, Christian Wilkins, Charles Woodson, Donald Penn, Rodney Hudson, Marshawn Lynch, and a whole host of others. I think NY is right, I bet you cannot name the current 8 players on the team making more than $10mil per year, can you? There was NO PARITY with Al, just bad General Management. No the entire contracts were not all guaranteed, but Al made a large portion of their contracts guaranteed. When Reggie McKenzie took over in 2012, for 2 years, the Raiders were in salary cap hell because of the contractual guarantees that Al gave players. For what? For an average of 4-12 records for 9 seasons.
"Nate- Al was 1 of the most iconic/ legendary and football men in NFL history don't you think coaches would want to learn from him? coach Peyton or Sarkasian wouldn't learn something?"
No one has ever disputed Al's football acumen on this site. Sean Peyton and Sarkisian refused to come coach for Al because they wanted more control of the team that Al wanted to give. Sarkisian's ego is bigger than his ability to coach, and University of Texas is finding that out. Sean Payton has openly said that Bill Parcell's talked him out of working for Al Davis, so that is on him.
"for the past 12 years we've had a Bellichick system. but when you aren't very good you could use help and the best way to get it takes spending."
This is the most absurd thing you have ever said on here. Mark Davis went with McDummy and Ziegler for a year and a half on working a "Bellechick" system, and has openly admitted it was not the right thing to do. They are not the Patriots, they are the Raiders and they need their own identity. The worst thing that Mark has done in these last 12 years was allow Jon Gruden to come back and get rid of McKenzie who was giving the Raiders their own identity.
The worst thing Al did in his last 9 years of owning the team, was giving more power and horrible contracts to the players without accountability to putting work into winning; while hiring coaches that did not know how to develop players.
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We don't need examples of other teams failures in order to understand the Raiders failures.
The Raiders 9-year losing streak was uniquely Al Davis. No other team fired their HC every year. No other team banked its future on JaMarcus Russell. No other owner undermined every head coach hire by retaining his own coaching staff which reported directly to the owner.
The most dysfunctional team in the history of American sports. Jerry Jones ain't got nothing on Al Davis' last 9 years.
Over the past two decades, the Raiders managed to squander two periods which they controlled massive draft capital. Once after the Gruden trade. Then again following trades of Mack and Cooper.
Google Raiders draft history. It speaks for itself... not to mention the terrible trades with the Steelers, including a 3rd rd pick for Antonio Brown.
There's no parity for the Raiders because they've been insanely incompetent.
To Raider Nate,
Al Anon-
You have 5 teams that had 9+ losing seasons after playing in a SB? here are the 5 teams you had:
Winner: Washington went to the SB against Buffalo and they went to the playoffs after beating them. they haven't been to another SB but they have made the playoffs and after they lost to the Raiders in '83 they went to the playoffs too.
Loser: Cincinnati played in the SB against the 49ers and went to the playoffs a year after losing to them. they went to the playoffs after going to the SB and losing to the 49ers again in '88.
Winner: The Bucs went to the SB against the Raiders and went to the playoffs 4 years after beating the Raiders in '02.
Loser: The Chargers went to the SB against S.F. and went to the playoffs a year after losing to them in '94.
NO TEAM except L.V., has been in a 9 year slump! it didn't make sense! even bad/ mediocre teams have 1 winning season over 10 years- even if they miss the playoffs they might win 9-10 games and we had good-elite rosters and a genius GM.
Yes we use the NFL 'model franchise' system and the Bellichick system. A system were you use coaching, preparation, discipline and passion to win and you get good players but you get them to buy that system and you try to get elite players to play for less money or you move on from them. that's cool but Al liked star players and felt they'd play harder for more money.
The players that Al signed/ traded for were already playing well for other teams. some were pro bowlers and others we
Oh yes you're right! there was no PARITY with Al! he was trying to win it all every year! and so were a few others! but the NFL made PARITY a rule! its' a money scheme! us
Al's spending?: the media/ NFL and Reggie claimed Al spent too much on players. if he did it was to reward them for playing well. but the thing is he paid guys who ALREADY were good-pro bowlers for other teams.
to even imply that pro bowlers and elite players don't win more is ridiculous, if the Sapps, Seymores, D. Halls and others quit and took advantage of Al then that's on them not him because he paid guys for being good-elite and to win.
Reggie's guys?: that was a good offense it looked good but the Raiders were a cheap as possible. they refused to build a defense by spending more money and they couldn't keep leads against the best NFL teams.
"There was no parity with Al": No, he didn't care about that- he wanted to win and dominate. the NFL DID want that and all 32 teams HAD TO cooperate or they'd get some of what the Raiders were getting! PARITY is a money scheme- fans of bad teams will go/ stay home when their teams are eliminated from the playoffs. with a few games left they may stop spending on their teams- but if their teams upset an elite team well, they may keep spending until almost the last game. that's what PARITY is to these owners, a scam or a very questionable system!! a few owners fought this guess who was 1 of them!? some of them gave in to the league after pressure from it but Al didn't!
Gaslight Al Anon, Parity is NOT a rule! Are you for real?
Instead of looking at the facts, you act like it never happened.
Parity is a concept which creates opportunity for the worst teams to draft the best college players. That's it! Unfortunately for the Raiders, it requires teams to know who the best college players are.
The one and only time the Raiders had their shot with the #1 draft pick they blew it. Al Davis took his best shot with JaMarcus Russell.
The entire decade was filled with errors in judgement by Davis and the Raiders. It's proven fact and you can't handle it... so it must not be true.
That's your entire argument, it's sounds impossible so it's not true.
Wake up! Google it!
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Gaslight Al, here's what you don't understand. Caution, you might be disappointed. Grab a tissue.
Al Davis was desperate to win. Desperate people do desperate things.
Al wasted plenty of draft capital reaching for would-be college prospects (like Russell) and signed every expensive free agent he could. Clearly, he wanted to win but he wasn't measured or smart about his approach.
When he died the Raiders were overextended in the NFL salary cap and they spent the next 2-3 years recovering. Much of their cap space was dead money from high-priced free agents that Al signed but they could no longer afford. The Raiders also were faced with the obvious need to rebuild (something Al refused to do).
Similar salary cap issues would significantly hamper the Raiders two more times. Once with Gruden and then again with Ziegler/McDaniels.
Each new regime dumped big salary players and created way too much dead money which, in turn, impeded the Raiders ability to sign other players.
Read this closely so you understand.
While good teams (like the Chiefs) were carrying $5M to $15M in dead money each season, the Raiders were regularly carrying $50M+ in dead money.
That's where your "star player" is.
It's not a conspiracy. It's simple math.
The Raiders created their own problems, during Al and since Al.
You can't just "SPEND" money, like you keep professing. That's stupid and it's largely what caused the Raiders to fail for the past two decades.
Maybe now you will stop whining about spending more money. You are only wishing for more failure.
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If you don't understand what happened or why, you keep repeating it. Which is what you want to do.
The Raiders DON'T need to sign more "star players" and drag their cap down.
The Raiders need to save their money (i.e., future cap space) for a QB!
Wake up!
To NY Raider, Part I
I said PARITY wasn't a rule? If I said PARITY wasn't a rule I'm sorry I wasn't reading the post right and didn't mean it!
Yes it is a rule and a money scheme too! its' more than helping bad team through the draft. its' 'leveling the playing field' with the salary cap and free agency. and IMO...making sure there was more PARITY by getting teams to get rid of star players quicker and not keeping them for years then, NFL asks them to sign with bad teams, they thought it might make PARITY work even better.
You see NY! back in the 90s' fans started complaining about the games. the 49ers, Cowboys and Bills were dominating the early 90s' and maybe 1-2 new teams might make the playoffs but mostly it was the 'Big 3' and the other contenders(Vikings, Washington, Oakland, Denver and Chicago) note: later K.C. had a playoff run too.
The NFL wanted PARITY too, in the 90s' they tried a new free agency and a different kind of salary cap but it didn't work the 'Big 3' and the contenders dominated the NFL! well the NFL saw the future and wanted to get political and legal power and more money! and building new stadiums was 1 way to do it! so they invited billionaires, ownership groups and corporations to buy teams.
They would make billions and force cities to bid for a team's loyalty these wall street and billionaire people had connections and could bring in more investors and billionaires in return they get huge tax breaks, t.v./ cable money, public money, revenue sharing, huge investments and a way for friends/ partners to make money(construction and other businesses) and money from sponsorship offers.
Yea, it wasn't about what fans wanted but the fans gave the NFL an excuse to do it.
PARITY was sloppy play, terrible games some of the worst SBs' I've ever seen were in the late 90s' and early 2000. it may have level the field but did it really?
Maybe but it also caused a huge problem because these billionaires weren't interested in any law/ rules or anything that kept them from getting what they wanted.
The Rabbit hole keeps getting deeper with you, Gaslight Al(ice in wonderland) Anon.
You want to gaslight us more and pretend that parity stemming from high draft picks and free agency was somehow a crutch to Al Davis.
Nobody in the NFL had more access to high draft picks and spent more money in free agency than Al Davis cumulatively over his last 9 years. Davis made one bad decision after another, strapping the team with bad coaches, JaMarcus Russell, and tens of millions in dead money cap space that hampered the team well past his death.
Davis had Top-10 draft picks every year (including a #1 and a #2) and blew them. He signed one expensive free agent after another.
Why do you continue to gaslight us? There's no accountability with you. It's always someone else's fault.
There's no escaping the truth. Raiders were bad mostly because Al Davis hired terrible head coaches and swapped them out almost every year... leaving his handpicked assistant coaches in place to do his bidding and report directly to him.
Let's review.
2003 Bill Callahan. 4-12 record. FIRED!
2004 Norv Turner. 5-11 record.
2005 Norv Turner. 4-12 record. FIRED!
2006 Art Shell. 2-14 record. FIRED!
2007 Lane Kiffin. 4-12 record.
2008 Lane Kiffin was FIRED mid-season and Tom Cable took over. 5-11 record.
2009 Tom Cable. 8-8 record.
2010 Tom Cable. 8-8 record. FIRED!
2011 Hue Jackson. 8-8 record. FIRED!
That's remarkable! No other team has ever had a run on coaches like that, so there's NO comparing the Raiders to anyone else.
And for anyone thinking Hue Jackson should have been retained. Jackson went 1-15 and 0-16 his first two seasons as HC of the Browns, then got FIRED! as their HC.
Raiders are proof that stupid trumps parity.
NY Raider,
Now lets get some things bought to the table!!!
We love this team and want to win. it doesn't matter if we make the playoffs or not we'll be fans but we want them to be the best in the NFL!
We should:
back A.P.
back Mark Davis
But there is a business side and we need to
support them to a limit
thank the accountants and lawyers
but we should also
criticize conservative spending
lack of effort to find good players
putting money/ investment over winning
bias against former Al Davis employees.
the NFL is a great league and it has bought joy to many of us fans but:
it's changed a lot since the 90s' and its' not as sincere as it once was.
it doesn't need just fans now it has a lot of ways to make money.
it doesn't show the same commitment to the
it has screwed over the NFL cities and sided with the owners when they want to move away.
it has allowed the owners to control it instead of the execs in the NFL front office.
* Now you think its' a new era and we have a good team?
we gotta win the AFC West first and that will take a lot of work so what do we have?:
Do we have a QB?: we have Minshew who has been a good back up and a starter for a few years and and O'Connell can the compete
K.C.- Mahomes is an elite QB, 1 of the best in the NFL and he is a running QB too who is exciting and a play maker.
Broncos, Wilson and Nix- 1 of them needs to do something quick because some critics think its' a rough situation and weak unit. but if coach Peyton can coach them up and/ or get that talent to work they might be a good unit.
LAC- Hebert is a top NFL QB, he's young and maybe close to, if not elite. but its' been tough on them for years and he's had different HCs' and none them used the old school Chargers' way and got him top NFL receivers. but now coach Harbaugh is there and he's gonna try and bring some talent and a new system to L.A.
can our D stop these QBs'?
do we have the D to help our O win games?
* We have the receivers but can our QBs' and OL beat the AFC West defenses?
Broncos- have been outstanding for years. they are rebuilding and haven't been that good for a few years. they have a rebuilt DL that might become a good 1. rookie edge/ DE J. Ellis could be a steal. they got inside pass rushers at DT and that may bring more to the DL- its already good but can they be like the V. Miller/ Chubb days? the LB unit is o.k. but unproven and the secondary lost star players and is rebuilt but had some good back ups and young veterans now they'll get a chance to start and they also have some good looking rookies.
LACs- they need a star NG or a really good 1 to have a top 10 DL. its' a 3-4 D- they have 2 of the best pass rushers in the NFL- N. Bosa and K. Mack. they need more help at CB. its' a rebuilding D this year. don't think they're done bringing in talent because they have coach Harbaugh and he may pull something to get more D talent.
The Raiders need to do more to win so I hope they can do something. They can make changes or keep what they have and try to coach it up. but its' going to be a long season and teams who are conservative/ cheap have to be nearly mistake free and if they aren't like Bellichick like you've claimed(I say they are) they'll have to do a great job of coaching 'em up!
NY you wanted to say this is the regime to win with! you want to see them make the playoffs.
So do we have enough talent to do it? is the talent able to compete with the star players in the AFC? can the staff keep the team motivated?
NY you think they're ready to be winners!? think they can make a playoff run!? and A.P. and Telesco are the winning team?
O.K. I hope you're right! you say they're a playoff team. and Raidernation thinks its' a playoff team. We both want them to win and we have different idea and opinions and I do think we could've signed a few more stars. We may argue but we are Raidernation!
Go Raiders!
The Raiders were never a Billion dollar company while Al was running them… and the biggest raiders blunder came while Al was suing the NFL during the 83 draft. Got screwed over on the Elway trade and missed on Dan Marino by selecting Don Mosbar.
Aussie Raider
FOS Anon,
Your double talking non committal stance is doing my head in…
You need to keep up with players… you may have missed the fact that the Doncos cut Wilson and ate a record cap hit for this year and Pitt picked him up off the trash heap for a cool 1m contract.
Also your take on the Raiders —
Raiders need to do more to win so I hope they can do something. They can make changes or keep what they have and try to coach it up. but its' going to be a long season and teams who are conservative/ cheap have to be nearly mistake free and if they aren't like Bellichick like you've claimed(I say they are) they'll have to do a great job of coaching 'em up!
So what is it? Keep what they got or make changes? Also you bag on the Patriots way but say if it isn’t coach like BC then they have more work ahead of them.???!!!
You throw more crap against the wall than a pissed off Chimp. I would be ashamed to use a handle too if I spoke this much nonsense.
Aussie Raider
Al Anon. For the record, I never said any of the things you say I did. That's more gaslighting by you.
Conservative spending? What does that mean? You either don't understand or refuse to acknowledge how the salary cap works.
Salary cap requires each team to spend approximately the same. The salary cap sets maximum AND minimum spending, below which teams get fined by the league. As far as I know, the Raiders never been fined for under-spending.
Al Davis orchestrated all this. That's the business side and it was all handled or approved by Al Davis.
To suggest the Raiders are too conservative with their spending, now or in the past, is uninformed. It goes against the principle of the salary cap which every team in the league has to navigate, including dead money.
Your simplistic view of how this process works (e.g., suggesting the Raiders need to "spend more money") is not steeped in reality. Every year, they spend within the range of the cap.
The Raiders have massive contracts for Adams, Wilkins and Crosby.
They NEED to save future cap room for a QB! So spending right now for the sake of spending would be stupid and reckless.
Tonight's game further proves my point, the Raiders should save future cap space for a new QB... and not spend it now on a flashy player that looks good getting off a bus (the Al Davis approach).
The only spending the Raiders are likely to undertake now is to fill holes and gain more depth.
Underwhelming first preseason game.
QBs did okay. AOC demonstrated accuracy but sometimes holds the ball too long. He needs to make quicker reads and throws. Minshew demonstrated he can throw down field and improvise (but only had 50% completions). Beyond these two guys, neither Brown nor Bradley are worthy of a roster spot.
Was the defense overhyped? I can't tell you how many times I read the Raiders offense was going against the #1 defense in the NFL and that's why the offense sputtered in practices. Obviously, not.
Audres Peat was toast at LT, and the two LTs weren't a lot better, IMO. Peat, a veteran, got schooled by the Vikings star rookie LB.
Raiders appear to have some depth at RB. Not a surprise. But none are at Jacobs level. It will likely be White, but also RB by committee this year.
After a decent first half (mostly by the offense), I'm glad the Raiders lost. They need to stay sharp and not get complacent in any way. Rookie DBs looked overmatched.
AP is said to be picking his starting QB next week. My initial feeling is that AOC is the better option because he may have more upside than Minshew, who has been in the league for 6 years and he is what he is... a serviceable backup.
Notwithstanding, the QB race looks pretty even on its face.
Gee, looks like I was correct about Brown and Bradley. They were so bad the Raiders are bringing back Nathan Peterman. Having an emergency 3rd QB is a total waste of roster space IMO. If they get to that level, just let Jakobi Meyers play emergency QB until they can sign one off the practice squad or waiver wire. What will it matter at that point?
I also believe it might be possible to game plan using both AOC and Minshew. With a better OC, the Raiders could use these guys to their advantage. They are evenly matched but possess different skill sets. AOC is an accurate pocket passer, whereas Minshew might be better in tight situations requiring quicker reaction and more mobility.
I don't have a lot of confidence in Luke Getsy... but I don't know him other than the egg he laid last year in Chicago. Apparently, he demonstrated some chops in Green Bay and that's what landed him as OC in Chicago.
We'll see.
News came out that the Raiders are now valued at $6.7 billion. Clearly, it doesn't matter if they win or lose. Wins are just for the fans... and they can't get that right.
They can't even fill the stadium with home team fans. Las Vegas sports is, show up to watch your favorite team kick the home team in the mouth and leave with a couple hundred dollars extra in your pocket.
Maybe that will change this year with AP now in charge. Mark Davis has been powerless to change it himself. Why should he care? His team is worth almost $7B.
Al paid $18,500 in 1966.
I am not too worried about prrseason games. Neither offense or defense will show their hand. For instance, a few fan generated "news" sites are destroying Tyree Wilson, suggesting he be traded. Watch the film, he had great pressure with just a bullrush. Not tipping his hand to a secondary move. He is going to be a surprise on this line with Koonce. AOC and Minshew played well. OLine struggled, which isnt good, as well the RBs. It will turn around
IDK, with AP the Raiders are said to be playing every snap (practice and game) with the intensity of mid-season.
Wilson is not top-5 draft talent. There's still serious concern whether or not he can bounce back from a disastrous rookie year. The film I saw wasn't very flattering. He's slow off the ball and can't shed his blocker. That's been his MO.
Look at the film on Byron Young. He sucks! No penetration and he was getting pushed around by the Viking's 2s and 3s. Young is a leftover from the previous regime which cut every interior lineman they drafted.
I'm concerned the Raiders don't have the depth I thought they might.
There's still a lot of work to do.
My only concern, especially watching Raiders v Cowboys, is the Red Zone game. Been there twice and only 2 FGs.
Neither QB did enough to earn the starter role, IMO. They should have to do it again next week before a starter is named. Very disappointing. Luke Getsy deserves some of the blame.
Run defense looks bad, again!
Lots of work to do!
It's Minshew. He threw downfield more effectively than AOC and he's able to improvise better. It makes sense for the short term. AOC will get better and possibly get another chance. I'd still like to see the Raiders mix it up a little with both QBs. They need to gain an edge because neither QB is capable of carrying the team. Which means everyone else has to step up.
Raiders played penalty-free in two games under AP, and they minimized turnovers at the end of the season. That mindset has to continue for either QB to be successful, IMO.
Waiting for the Roster cuts to 53 today. Interesting to see who makes it and who doesn't. The biggest name in the NFL so far is Desmond Ridder, who was cut by the Cardinals after they traded for him. I'd be willing to give him a shot since the Raiders have cut Peterman and Bradley. Have to do something at this position.
For me, there were no surprises. It's what I expected. However, it's worth noting that only two QBs made the 53. Once upon a time, Gruden kept four QBs. That's ridiculous! In fairness, the NFL now allows the emergency QB to come off the practice squad. But, four?! Never! Three, maybe. But, why bother?
Besides the obvious, here are the newcomer stars, IMO.
-UDFA Amari Gainer is a tackling machine. He will replace someone as starter before the year is over.
-UDFA Ramel Keyton. This kid showed up when the pressure was on. When scrubs were playing for their professional lives, he shined. He caught a pass that was already by him. He outplayed better WRs to win this chance.
-Tyrek McAllister. Another guy that excelled when it mattered.
All these guys earned their way, and it's nice to see they were rewarded for their efforts.
Like I said, everybody else is kind of a no-brainer. Bowers and Minshew are the weapons the Raiders need to step up and make a difference.
I'd add Tyree Wilson but I'm not sure he's capable of truly making an impact. His performance last year was impeded by injury, so hopefully he steps up, but I'm not overly confident he's the player McZiegler thought he is.
Raiders have a lot of talent, but it will take AP's "IT" factor to get the team over the top and into the playoffs. Every game is a war. No battles are won without sacrifice.
My biggest concern for 2024? Luke Getsy. He flamed out as OC of the Bears last year. But, apparently, he had some chops in GB.
Otherwise, QB is a wildcard, and probably interchangeable if things go sideways. Next year the Raiders will have to spend mega resources to secure their next franchise QB. No room for error now that they have the foundation of a good team.
I would add this... funny that the Raiders only kept three TEs with Getsy as OC. Getsy is a TE playcaller. Bowers will see a lot of opportunities. I expect the Raiders to carry a couple TEs on their practice squad.
Raiders initially kept Byron Young on the 53-man roster but cut him today. Strange but not surprising. Young was drafted by McZiegler, who drafted 4-5 DTs in their short time with the Raiders, none of which are on the 53-man roster. They were all weak. Young regularly got pushed around by 2nd and 3rd teamers and could not shed blocks.
The Raiders have among the lowest draft retention of any team in the league. That's not an accident, and it's certainly not the NFL's fault, via parity or some other ridiculous reason.
The Raiders have been awful drafting. I learned today that the Bucs have about the highest draft retention and among the highest winning percentage over the past several years. That's probably not an accident either. Good scouting and management.
Hopefully, the Raiders figured it out this year. Bowers looks like a baller, and JPJ might be a starter soon at G. Glaze? Maybe. After these guys, the next best are probably the UDFAs, Gainer and Keyton.
They need a QB! Tolesco has his work cut out for him.
My prediction is the Raiders trade Adams before the deadline and expend massive draft capital to get a franchise QB for next year. IMO, the only way that doesn't happen is if Minshew or AOC step up and take control... which neither came close to doing during preseason.
It will probably take 3 first round picks for the Raiders to go from the middle of the draft to the top pick in 2025. Carson Beck?
Raiders were one of only four teams to claim multiple players off waivers. Clearly, they are not happy with their roster, but it's also true they are aggressively doing something about it.
Ironically, Telesco plucked one of Harbough's draftees who Harbough likely wanted for his practice squad.
It is the first week of the season! Raiders v Dunderdolts in our home away from home (Los Angeles). I am predicting a 31-17 win for the Raiders.
Bold prediction, Nate. Two teams with new head coaches and you predict Antonio Pierce with blow out Jim Harbaugh in LA? Sounds more like wishful thinking than a prediction. But that's cool. I'd take that with a smile all week long.
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