Browns Gameday Thread
Well, after last week I'm out of the prediction business. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 1:28 PM
Well, after last week I'm out of the prediction business. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 1:28 PM
40 Comments:
I guess 2-2 doesn't seem that bad. But it's how we got here that's most bothersome. Luke Getsy is horrible. And Gardner Minshew doesn't look any better now than he did in preseason. Also, White's ability to hold the football has to be in doubt right now. He's had a couple of costly fumbles in very limited action.
Still, the defense stepped up without their leader, and missing Epps.
The Raiders entered today with one good quarter of football. Maybe they added another quarter (spread over the entire game).
Dude take a chill pill they won without their two best players enjoy the moment. Sandy
To Anonymous
Al-Anon
Yes they won but NY is right! this is a mediocre team winning a terrible game of both teams.
The Raiders refuse to make changes. The D did good but why wait until the trade deadline and not get some more talent? we've been here before no we don't need to just take the win- we need to be happy but we don't have to make it a playoff win! this is not a top D and they need to bring in some help like a veteran CB and LB.
Raiders defense stepped up but we're still seeing some of the same problems on offense, and much of that is coaching, IMO.
Minshew has a surprisingly weak arm. His timing is off and he's not on the same page with his receivers. This is a carryover from preseason.
While the O-line was better, Kolton Miller has gone MIA.
Wilkins, Butler, Spillane, Snowden, and a few others stepped up.
But in some ways that game felt like a loss. Smith's fumble returned for a TD, Cooper's TD reception overturned on a questionable holding call and the missed extra point. In the end, the Browns beat themselves. It's not really a feel-good moment.
Nice bounce back win after last weeks debacle.
Have to wonder what the point is of playing Minshew over AOC. I'd rather find out if AOC is our Qb of the future or not. Minshew is not long term answer and Raiders, as usual, are wasting time.
Anyone up for this trade ? Devante Adams to Jets for holdout, Haason Riddick. Straight up, no draft picks involved. What do ya think ?
Raiders certainly have the resources. Maybe the Jets would give up more than a straight trade. If you listen to some media and players, Adams sounds like their missing link.
I agree about AOC. He has a bigger arm, better accuracy, and probably more upside. IMO, guys like Adams wanted Minshew because of his veteran presence, but I don't see that advantage.
AOC is mediocre at best and can not escape the pass rush at all. With the questionable oline play he would be a disaster. Adams for Reddick no way especially having to give Reddick a new contract. Pass rush is fine. 3 sacks without Crosby yesterday. Minshew is way better option than AOC. Play calling yesterday was much improved, using all those different players inthe run game got great results.Sandy
Minshew has 16 yards on 9 carries running the ball this season. He folds like a cheap suit when under pressure... which appears to be his instruction in order to protect the ball.
Meanwhile, Minshew has 3 TDs and 3 INTs in 4 games and little to no upside, so I'm not sure what we're clinging to here.
In his last 4 pro games, AOC had 8 TDs and 0 INTs. Sure, it's a small sample, but he was a rookie. The kid has overachieved at every level of his career.
It seems kind of obvious now that Minshew has four games under his belt. He was not that good yesterday, missing on many throws that could have changed the game for the Raiders. Two deep balls sailed over open WRs, and another pass bounced off the grass on a cross.
Haason Riddick certainly will need a new contract if traded. But Devante Adams' salary will bump to 35 mil next season. Adams is still great, but 35mil for an aging Wr, in which the Raiders don't even have a Qb that can get him the ball much of the time.
Getting Riddick could put the Raiders defense on verge of being a dominant unit. Very tempting.
Adams likely will need to renegotiate his contract no matter where he plays. But the Jets are in a tight window of opportunity with Aaron Rodgers. I don't think they are as worried about next year as they are this year. It's "now" for them.
Raiders found a way to win on a timely sack when needed the most, and without Crosby. I seriously thought we were going to lose that game. Getsy needs to get rid of Zone Blocking. For real, its the offense's version of Prevent Defense. Zone Blocking is not only killing our O-line, but it is killing our running game. Time to get these "offensive gurus" to help guide Getsy.
Nate Getsy called a great game 150 yards rushing. The Raiders do better with Zone blocking then Gap blocking check the stats. Sandy
Raiders entered Week 4 as the worst run offense in the league, by +20 yards a game. That's not even close.
I think Getsy's was bullied into change and came up with some sort of hybrid, stepping away from zone. But if there's one word to described his playcalling, it would be "uninspired." Worse, Minshew can barely operate it.
I had way more confidence in Bo Hardigree.
Sandy, the majority of those yards (110 yards to be exact) came on 2 explosive running plays. Also, here is a youtube video about the blocking scheme of the Raiders this year, minus yesterday's game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BDQFEIORI
Also, James Cregg (O-Line Coach) has repeatedly said that he is utilizing a "Wide Zone Blocking Scheme." Zamir White has never ran in this scheme, and it requires patience for the running hole to develop. 2 problems plaguing the Raiders right now with this scheme. 1) O-Line is confused, and opposing D-Line is getting into the backfield before a hole is created. 2) Zamir is not patient, and not seeing or running through the gaps. Historically, the Raiders have never rushed the ball well under ZBS. They have had the greatest success on a hybrid or straight power blocking.
Nate the Raiders do not have the personell for gap Parnham, James both under 300. What two running plays equaled 110 yards? They did not have run longer than 19 yards. Did you even watch the game? Sandy
Raiders longest runs Sunday were end arounds. In three previous games, play-action was ineffective because the Raiders couldn't run and most throws were to the LOS.
Clearly, Getsy is reversing his course for good reason. His offense sucks and he's being called out by fans, media and, apparently, Raiders brass.
James is listed at 300 lbs, and we all know published weights are usually low. Parham has underachieved since he arrived. JPJ is now in the mix, and he's clearly a power blocker.
Jacobs didn't win a rushing title behind ZBS. The faster the Raiders get back to power blocking, the quicker they will resolve their rushing woes.
It's not a coincidence, nor is it an accident, the Raiders are worst in the league running the ball. The offense under Getsy is a mess!
The Browns had starting OTs out and Myles Garrett maybe 70% or 80%. They were still more than the Raiders could handle and should have won that game, if not for a lame holding call and missed extra point.
The Broncos defense looks very tough, and the game this week is huge. Perhaps we should be prepared for another 3-0 game involving the Raiders.
Following the nonsense with Josh McDaniels offense last year, the Raiders figured it out at the end of last season, out-scoring opponents in three straight division wins.
But instead of learning from that experience, they hire Getsy and bring WC offense back into the fold. Now they're scrambling to recover from another WC offense nightmare, proving if you don't learn from your mistakes you are bound to repeat them.
NY you are wrong longest run was up the middle by Mattison. I would hold off with the crtiscim of Getsy there are multiple new starters on the o-line, a new system and a new qb. You act like the offense last year was the greatest show on turf. It was below average at best, Oconnel never had a 300 yard game and his rtg and qbr were les than Minshews this year. Sandy
The greatest show on turf? Really? It's not just players, the Raiders have been forced to alter their scheme. They started the year with WC offense (off the heels of McDaniel's failures!) and that bad decision has cost them.
Getsy has a recent history of failure in Chicago. Look it up. He needed to be better than that, and so far he hasn't been.
On Sunday when the Raiders needed to move the ball to secure the game, they couldn't. It fell to their defense which fortunately came thru.
You're treating that game like a McDonald's Happy Meal. It feels good now but it's empty calories. Pink slime!
Raiders still have a long way to go. I expected more. At a minimum, I expected them to be smarter.
Al-Anon
The Raiders need to make some changes or at least do what makes some if not some sense if not common sense.
LBs/ R. Spillane has been kicking butt and a play maker for the unit but he needs Masterson and Deablo to help him and maybe DC P. Graham will start using 3 LBs; they are being being blasted and
DL/ they may think they have some good DE/ edge depth but they need help at DT. they could sign a star FA veteran
Run game/ well, not much now but maybe they might want to see if T. McAllister can play. the might let him run the ball a few times or make him a RB for a one game and maybe he can use his speed to make big runs.
QB/ Fans are arguing over who should be the starter- right now they are in a shaky, up and down spot. Minshew is a vet and is o.k. and I think he's our best chance to win.
Davante has asked to be traded hopefully they can get it at least a second rounder for him. Sandy
Al-Anon
We can be a good team but we can't make the NFL and the Raiders stop the collusion scam.
I heard a rumor that pro bowl WR D. Adams 'requested' a trade. So? players do that. It seems it may be the NYJs' that is his main hope. but the media claims its' other teams looking at him too. No, I think its' collusion, the NFL tells the Raiders what to do! it makes sense a little to trade the guy but not if you're serious about a playoff run and they once again will ruin themselves and help another team. As much as I complain that they don't make big moves I worry if they know how to make good deals for players. I think the Adams trade was a mistake in the first place, trading away high picks then, letting your best QB walk.
I hope they keep Adams but its' the league that wants this trade. Maybe fans should complain to the Raiders.
To Raider Take,
Al-Anon
Well, once again the Raiders MIGHT be sending us home early!
I have said it for years that the NFL has a BIG say in their front office! you wanted a new era you wanted Al to retire or let another GM have the job. because of the 9 year slump.
Now, over 9 years I NEVER saw a team without the talent to make the playoffs but- they lost and didn't make the playoffs up until Al passed away.
But I can tell you it wasn't because he didn't try to win.
But the new regime might be trying to trade pro-bowl WR D. Adams. so you think its' just time or maybe a good move I think its' an NFL/ owners' move to help the NFL get more ratings.
This is collusion and another con job against Raiders. oh they'll come up with some good sounding reason(s) or try to keep us happy and loyal and spending on the Raiders with some story. maybe they may even make the NYJ's give us a fair trade.
But I don't understand why fans go for this none sense.
The Raiders are doing it because the owners/ NFL want them to. This is how you want to see this famous team?
I hate to make predictions (for a reason) but I nailed this one. It just appears to be happening sooner than I thought because of a little tit-for-tat between Pierce (if true) and Adams.
Adams clearly gives his vote of no confidence in Getsy. Perhaps he's done with the Raiders QB choices too.
Conversely, the Raiders might be tired of involving Adams in every decision on offense.
Unfortunately, it might come down to a second rounder because of Adams inflated contract. That's not much help in the ultimate goal of trading into the top of the draft for a QB (if there is one!).
Frankly, Adams is too good for the Raiders. He deserves a better QB and a better team. To be sure, the Raiders would have lost to the Ravens without Adams, who did what only he and a few others can do.
Are the wheels coming off the bus less than 1/4 into the season?
I don't think so. Mark Davis made his decision. Pierce is safe for at least another year. A season with no QB won't define him.
But isn't it funny how the Raiders continue to make decisions without a plan or understanding the consequences.
If a trade doesn't get done by the time the Raiders play Sunday, it could get very messy.
Al-Anon
Some of what NY is posting I think is right on! except once again he lets the NFL and the other owners
An D. Adams and A. Rodgers reunion is so staged! A 2nd rounder.
Al: traded a 1st rounder for R. Seymore. he had good years with the Raiders and made the pro bowl and is in the NFL HOF.
Hue: traded a 1st rounder for a pro-bowl QB(C. Palmer) and Reggie then ruined the roster a year later. Pick 6 Palmer had it tough in Oakland then Reggie traded him to the Cardinals and he went to the pro bowl.
Zeigler: traded a 1st for pro-bowl WR D. Adams but let their best QB walk(D. Carr). the team wasn't that good but had a good receiving unit but it was tough on them and Adams then the Raiders started a rookie(AOC). it wasn't a good season for the Raiders.
Reggie: instead of keeping C. Palmer or TP2 as QBs' they signed a lot of guys and the team had problems it helped that they were rebuilding so nobody thought they should be winning the first few years. Reggie later drafted D. Carr. he was good, not great but he had some good years for us and is 1 of the best ever Raiders' QBs'.
I don't know what Reggie did with the draft picks or players from C. Palmer and TP2 trades but they had a pro bowl level QB and decided they didn't want him.
That's the difference between these regimes. Al didn't look as bad as some claim and D. Adams has been a star, I don't remember Gruden making any trades but it looks like the team doesn't get much from these trades and ends up having a good player(s) and not helping the guy help us win and then they want us to support their game plan. they need to make good trades and not give up so much. they can bring in cheaper players to help a star players win.
Al Anon,
AFC West
K.C./ receivers are banged up but they are elite offense. their O-line is o.k. about average. their run game could be even better- its' very good.
The Raiders might be looking at a wild card birth/ chance because K.C. is elite and the Raiders may not be able to use their talent to compete with K.C. and they may not want to make big moves to bring in star players to make the team a bigger challenge to K.C.
The Raiders want to be like Bellichick but if their staff can't motivate or prepare like the old Patriots it will be hard to beat K.C. this year.
LACs/ rebuilding! they somehow beat the Raiders when L.V. had the motivation and talent to beat them. this team has a few holes but they have a QB and a run game. when not if they get receivers they will be a very good team. the Raiders should be able to win their next game. they need a NG and a few LBs' on D.
Broncos/ rebuilding. Nix is a question mark. will he be a steal or a good, not great QB? the DL is outstanding! they are very good and Raiders' OL has to stop them from pressuring and sacking Minshew. they have a good secondary but it's not as good as it has been for years. Raiders could sweep this team.
The Raiders need some help. first they need to help themselves and the NFL needs to leave them alone. then, they need to make some big moves. we don't need another rookie QB! we need to make moves and spend! they need to tell Adams they want to keep him and trade Meyers. they need to make trades and bring in some DBs and DLs' and try to make a playoff run. a QB in the draft? this team doesn't draft well and they need to build a team for a rookie QB to win. this is not K.C. or Dallas this is a team that the NFL is tampering with.
Funny, now Garrett Wilson (Jets WR) is complaining about his "route tree" assignments not being as dynamic as in the past, suggesting the Jets offense with Rodgers isn't what it ought to be. Could Wilson be trying to dissuade Adams from going to the Jets?
IMO, a second-round pick isn't worth losing the best WR in the NFL. Worse, if the Raiders unload Adams the way they did Derek Carr, with little to no compensation, then it's business as usual.
As I said before, the Raiders continue to make decisions without a plan or understanding the consequences. This spans several regimes (including AL). The common denominator the past decade is Mark Davis. He stood by and watched the last regime walk all over Derek Carr and get nothing in return.
I'll say this too: AP should get off social media and stop airing his grievances in the press. Clearly, that's what he'd tell his players.
Davante wants to go where he has the best chance at winning. Ravens, Saints, Bills, Texans, Jets, or Steelers would be my bet (in that order too). A couple wildcard teams to trade him to would be the Cowboys and Rams. Adams controls where he goes, and his contract stipulates that he has to approve the trade, which sucks because I would send him somewhere like Cleveland, Carolina, Jacksonville, or the NY Giants.
Davante was not happy this offseason after the promise of going after a QB that would help them win, and Telesco whiffing on that; not too mention he was not happy with Jacobs leaving or Getsy hire. I saw the writing on the wall when he stayed away an extra week, and decided not to play preseason. The icing on the cake was benching AOC in favor of Minshew. Davante made it clear that if they didn't get a QB, they should ride with AOC. Davante stood up for AP, and is now quitting on him. It is clear that Davante was the player "making business decisions" over the team.
I will tell ya this much, if they trade him to the Chiefs or Chargers, I'm going straight to Mark Davis' house. The question is who is going to be the willing trade partner, and what will we go after and get?
I don't think the Jets trade Garrett Wilson, that would supplant the purpose of going after Davante. Reddick makes more sense in that trade as he is holding out and is demanding a new contract or trade.
Either way, burning down the house this early in the season is not a good look.
Nate, I have to say, I have not seen some of what you said posted anywhere.
First, the Raiders not getting a QB was arguably out of their control. Did you expect them to sign Russell Wilson? Or draft the 7th best QB option with the #13 pick? Six QBs were off the board when they drafted.
And some media reported that Adams was involved in the decision process to play Minshew.
Also, why would Adams play in preseason and be exposed to injury? Pierce made a stupid claim that everybody plays in preseason.
Finally, Adams hasn't really said anything, so it's tough to know what he wants. This thing went sideways when Pierce reportedly "liked" a trade rumor post. He should stay off social media.
I think it happens, but I'm not happy about it, nor do I believe either party planned it... which makes it even dumber.
This article seems fairly grounded without too much commentary. There doesn't appear to be anything known beyond what's reported here.
https://www.raidersbeat.com/report-says-davante-adams-wants-to-leave-the-raiders-asap/
Raidernation,
Its' been crazy weather. get your over the counter medicines and prescriptions! if its' a heat wave when its' supposed to be fall/ winter weather there could be problems with flu's, infections and viruses. be very careful and ready for infections and maybe, mosquitoes in the fall and winter from the heat!
stay hydrated but also be ready for problems from the cold coming after a heat wave.
If you're in the fall/ winter normal seasons then just get your medicines. be aware of insects that carry viruses.
Don't forget if you're having money issues and can't afford a lot of groceries see if there are food banks in your areas.
Raiders should use the things media/ some fans and NFL haters don't want them have.
SPEED!
T. McAllister as a RB
Tucker as a slot and KR
D.J. Turner as a PR, KR and WR
Florio suggested the Raiders could take on some of Adams salary in order to get better trade compensation, like better draft pick(s). The Raiders have that ability and should be working that angle, IMO. They need a 1st round pick for Adams because it will probably cost them 2-3 first rounders to get to the top of the draft, assuming there's a worthy QB in 2025.
Jayden Daniels has been the guy from this year's draft, at least so far.
I'm just wondering if we, as fans, knew what was happening behind closed doors with players, coaches, management, and owner; would we still be loyal fans? I don't understand why it is so difficult for our team to start winning and drafting well.
Things seemed to be going fine until Davis hired Telesco. Jacobs left, AOC benched, no trade up for QB which was being talked about before Telesco. Adams didn't want to play in the second preseason game, and was told if he was healthy he'd play; and the next day, he came up with a hamstring injury.
He has really been non-existent with exception of the Ravens game. After that game, things got weird, real fast.
I'm disappointed here a little. How many trash QB's did Tim Brown play for? I think great players help the team overcome, and Adams is not helping because he feels the Raiders aren't trying to help. Derek Carr tried to help, inspite of the stupidity with turnover on rosters, draft, and coaching; which is why I thought he was good for the Raiders.
This is not a good look for our team, and not sure it will help us move forward. How long before this happens with Crosby?
This is a bizarre situation even for the Raiders.
Unfortunately, it's also an indictment of the team and its operations.
I've lost a little respect for AP over the past couple weeks, first calling out his players in the press for making "business decisions", then "liking" a tweet, or whatever it was about Adams trade rumor. Those are unprofessional actions and definitely not worthy of a multi-billion organization. That's bush league.
To Raidernation!,
Al-Anon
Hey, have a good fall, get your medicines and prescriptions and check on the needy in your families and communities.
We don't have a very good team but it has talent and we might be able to have a winning season maybe not make the playoffs but win more than lose but with some moves we might make the playoffs. we are Raidernation and we are loyal win or lose.
I am asking fans not to quit on the team I'm saying COMPLAIN it may not do any good but the fact is we are seeing business that is about the NFL not the Raiders.
D. Adams- a top WR on a mediocre team. says he's injured and the struggling NYJs' A. Rodgers needs help. the Raiders trade him and the Jets start kicking ass. the Raiders get a draft pick and suck for the rest of '24. its' the stupid Raiders making a bad trade and but its' kind'a smart because they get rid of big contract! Adams and Rodgers get the O moving and the NYJs' make the playoffs!
In L.V. fans are upset they blame Telesco and MD. they start to turn on the team again but some still support the regime and want them to draft a QB. great, a rookie QB leading the team.
That would be great for the league but it will hurt the fans. Think the NFL wouldn't pull something like this? I said they tampered with the Raiders and they also are mad/ obsessed with making money a story like that is a 'feel good' story and would bring the ratings up high. and the Raiders aren't free to say "NO".
There may be some control from the NFL. MD can't isn't running the team.
Maybe if we COMPLAIN the public will start to question the NFL's system.
Al Anon says "... the Raiders aren't free to say "no" to drafting and starting a rookie QB.
Is that your pre-event conspiracy? Or just uncontrollable paranoia.
Sorry NY, I didn't say they weren't free to say "NO" to drafting and starting a rookie QB. I meant the Raiders can't make a lot of moves like drafting elite college stars or spending on star FAs'. There are decent-good QBs veterans they could try and get but they won't. But I don't know what the Raiders want I don't know if their ADVISERS won't let them say "NO" or not I don't think they would do that but I know these ADVISERS have say over some of the things the Raiders do maybe they have say over a lot of their moves. Maybe they won't let the Raiders make a lot of moves unless they have say or give their permission.
The Raiders don't have a lot of draft picks to make big trades so they may have to pass on a QB next year too.
Al Anon, you are constantly saying the Raiders don't make their own decisions. Your post above is just one example. You specifically stated the NFL has control and MD isn't running the team. Hard to misread that.
You are an excuse machine, giving the Raiders (Al Davis in particular) no accountability for their failures. Your posts read like the Raiders are special and shouldn't have to navigate the NFL like other teams.
You fail to recognize the Raiders simply haven't been as smart as other teams... for decades.
Do you cheat at board games too?
NY Raider,
BUSINESS DECISIONS part III?
D. Adams- this year wanted to be a Raider(I think) and defended their ridiculous moves.
Now?- rumor is- he said he wants to be traded.
A.P.- calling out people yet giving no plan as to what they plan to do to help those players win. He also hasn't really talked or gave any idea of plans for running the teams' hiring of assistants and a game plan for the team.
This team didn't even interview a lot of other coaches and passed on some top coaches whether or not they wanted to interview for the job-
B. Bellichick, N. Saban and J. Harbaugh, Hue and S. Peyton
Now?: they want to hate on Telesco and some are questioning A.P.'s time with us.
Telesco- drafting an elite TE then not going after any star star defensive FAs'. the Bowers pick was very good but they missed a chance to get more stars.
Now?: they weren't using their TEs' and if Adams leaves they'll really look mediocre.
Raidernation- supported the A.P. new regime and listened to all the big talk.
Is your post is based on pun, because it seems like you don't read media and still have no idea the context of the spoken words, "business decision."
And why does AP need to reveal anything to fans or media? Once upon a time, the Raiders lived under a cone-of-silence and you embraced that because that was how Al did "business". Now it's no good?
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