Panthers Gameday Thread
You can't beat the Ravens on the road, then lose to the Panthers at home.
Therefore, the Raiders will be 2-1 after today.
That is all. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 12:39 PM
You can't beat the Ravens on the road, then lose to the Panthers at home.
Therefore, the Raiders will be 2-1 after today.
That is all. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 12:39 PM
37 Comments:
What a massive letdown. Raiders got out-coached and out-played. If my math is correct, the Raiders have played only one solid quarter of football so far this season.
Crosby was not 100% and there was nobody to pick up the slack.
My personal opinion is that Luke Getsy is a disaster. He needs to change everything he's doing to correct his own mistakes, or AP needs to turn over the keys to someone else... and that might mean at QB too.
To NY Raider,
Al-Anon
We can still do it the Raiders need to go into panic mode and make some moves!
This team said it was going to make a playoff run the media said it had a chance and the staff would turn this team around with a game plan and push the team higher than expected.
Panthers kicked our butts! after the game comments:
Not the worst team but not very good either! I know we just need our great DL to get well and our great front office to get working and we'll be back in the playoff talk! are we a bad team again Raidernation? or is this just problems and other little things that slowed the momentum and this is just a small set back before we go on a big winning streak?
Well what now? do we go with AOC? Wow! do we let the OC keep the game plan? let our DC keep using just 2 LBs, be cheap and not trade for good DLs and DBs'?
Luke Getsy?: oh, why do I think any OC would be to blame in your opinion?: it's got to be somebody it can't be the roster and the system can it? maybe bringing more speed, keeping the "west coast" and using other RBs' might get the offense going!
The Raiders need another voice or game plan an old game plan! a size and speed game plan. NY, if they have talent and a good staff then why not just add a little old school ideas like speed.
The Raiders aren't to blame for all of their problems. Its' their friends, the NFL who are holding them back! NY this is ridiculous! beat the Ravens lose to a mediocre Panthers' team! this is a playoff team?
The NFL doesn't want a real Raiders' team. no rocket science just plain intimidation and tampering.
1. no elite players let other teams have them.
2. act like a model franchise don't make trouble.
3. don't over pay players you can spend big on a few but not a lot like Al did.
4. no politics wanna help somebody don't help the players help the other owners get richer.
5. make money don't worry about winning too much.
YOU...GOTTA...BE...KIDDING...ME !!
This ranks with most embarrassing losses in Raiders history. Right up there with high school coach, Jeff Saturday coming off the street to mop the floor with the Raiders.
Now, 40 year old, washed up nobody, Andy Dalton steps on field, yawning, and totally destroys the Raiders.
Through all these morbid regimes there is one constant, owner Mark Davis...He picks the rotten fruit, then forces the fans to eat it. It's enough to make you sick !!
What moves? You have no idea what you're suggesting. Name one "star" player you want the Raiders to pursue.
Marcus Mariota?
Hassan Reddick
Luke Getsy is not a good OC. Pierce coming out and saying some people (players and coaches) on the team have made a "Business Decision" instead of playing really shows; and I think Getsy is one of them. Time to make a decision and move on. Zamir White and the rest of the RB crew are not as affective because of the Zone Block scheme. He is not a zone runner, but a power runner. Time to make that adjustment. Cannot continue to pass-pass-pass to set up the run. 55 yards on 16 carries? Zamir with 34 on 10 carries, Minshew with 14 on 3 runs is atrocious. Minshew did not play bad, but he missed a couple key passes where he threw behind the WRs, especially his INT throw to Davante late in the game. Speaking of Davante, he dropped several key passes as well, and he and Minshew do not seem to be on the same page.
Another game where the Offense continued to sputter, leaving the defense on the field. Raiders had almost 24 minutes in their time of possession, and the majority of that came in garbage time. I was worried about this game, another classic game that the Raiders should have blown them out, but snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. Andy Dalton is now 5-0 against the Raiders, out there looking like Brett Favre.
As far as players, they need to sign some O-Linemen. At Tackle, I'd start with Donovan Smith and La'el Collins who are free agents. Guard/Center, I'd be working out Mason Cole and Connor McGovern, both free agents. On the D-Line, no brainer with Malcom Koonce done for the year, I'd bring in Yannick Ngakoue. If he didn't want to come back, I'd be calling Charles Harris and Frank Clark who are also Free Agents. Nothing at RB or QB that would improve these positions. But I don't think it will matter with Getsy as OC.
To his credit, Dalton was laser accurate yesterday. Raiders left far too much open for him and he did what you'd expect a veteran to do, he took advantage.
Ghost, the Jeff Saturday analogy is a good one. The Raiders seem to always succumb to these situations, be it first-timer or return-to-the-ring events.
Getsy is play-calling us into these situations with ZBS and west coast offense. By the time he gets more aggressive its either too late or the Raiders need to mount a comeback like last week. You could hear the frustration with play-calling in AP's voice after the game.
Adams was uncharacteristically dropping passes and Crosby was not himself, probably because of his ankle injury. Nobody else stepped up.
Raiders showed us they aren't as good as their win in Baltimore and probably not as bad as the loss yesterday. Still a lot of work to do. Personally, I'd probably start by demoting Getsy and shuffling the O-line.
This reeks of a team that is fueled by emotion. Stirring victory on the road, followed by shameful ass-kicking by a lowly team at home. Head coach saying players quitting on the game. Doesn't seem like a tight ship. All that said, the NFL is already loaded with big upsets through three weeks, so let's hope this is a blip rather than yet another systemic regime issue.
AP did say last year that he didn't want the team to play only on emotion because that would be too hard to sustain. Who knew it would fade by Week 3... after only one quarter of decent football played by the team.
It will be revealing to see what changes are made. That might tell us who among the Raiders players and coaches were making "business decisions" during yesterday's game.
This is why I don't buy Pre-season hype. It's like the Presidential Race, all hype, no substance by either candidate. Then after the election, everything changes. Every since Raiders let Bisaccia walk, this team has spiraled. Thought it would change under AP, because the players' bought in when he stepped in. It started to unfold with the Getsy hire and no QB FA signed, or no QB drafted. Damn, this isn't rocket science, and we keep shooting ourselves in the foot with horrible decisions. Get rid of Getsy and the Zone Blocking Scheme. It didn't work under Cable, and it is not working now. Gruden had it right by running a hybrid of power-zone. I swear, I can coach this offense better than what is there, and I have ZERO coaching experience at the High School, Collegiate, and professional levels. This is why we haven't won anything meaningful in over 20 years.
Also, this is why, as an owner, Mark Davis should have never let McDummy to get rid of Derek Carr for nothing; unless you have a better player at QB. That move alone set this offense back 5 years. They should have held on to Carr's contract, even after the deadline, and traded him.
This franchise continues to do the same things hoping for different results. As a fan, I'm tired of the insanity.
Nate, in fairness (and speaking for myself), it was never about pre-season hype. It was hype from the final four games last year when the Raiders demonstrated cohesion and progress (winning 3 straight in the division). If anything, hiring Getsy and the struggles of pre-season dampened enthusiasm and, ultimately, the results. No hype there. This thing went sideways and now it's close to being on life support.
On a side note, Minshew is a better QB than what we're seeing, IMO. We saw what McDaniels did to Derek Carr, so it's fathomable Getsy is hindering Minshew in the same way, with all the BS passing at the LOS.
But Minshew rarely leaves the pocket and sometimes appears to be looking for a sack, almost like he wants it. IMO O'Connell is a better passer in the pocket (and has a stronger arm), so I'm not sure I understand why O'Connell isn't starting. Of course, that might be about to change.
It went from WOW! to ugly in warp speed.
BUSINESS DECISIONS:
Decisions!? Al couldn't make them? Reggie wasn't very good at it? Gruden made some terrible 1's? the Pats' guys didn't do them well? and now!
Its' that very same problem that is ruining this team but it wasn't Al and not just the regimes its' your NFL! I don't understand how a team can be hated not by fans but by a league and some of the owners but the fans don't think those owners/ league would intimidate that person! Wow! just what do you think
MD does not make decisions!
MD probably didn't hire ANY of these people except Gruden/ Mayock maybe.
the NFL looks at money they don't care about our sufferings maybe some of the execs care about our situation but the NFL wants money and they really don't like us and if L.V. is making money and we suck- then its' not a problem for them.
there are new employees and hardly any Al-employees left. I think that they are mostly hard working, good workers but I also feel the NFL is there too- I think those guys don't really understand Al's vision and may not really care. the other issues are past grudges and politics they still have grudges against Al and are taking it out on the current team and they also don't want any Al's era or old Raiders' moves. and do things differently in fact, they might listen to any idea except anything Al might do.
But this regime doesn't make ANY real moves. the Adams move now just doesn't seem to make sense after letting Carr go and it cost 2 high draft picks. they don't make a lot of moves or try to do a lot in a conservative way much less like Al might do it.
But maybe using some of Al's ideas might help.
they don't/ won't:
make any big trades(except the Adams move)
use size and speed
pressure their staff more
sign expensive star FAs'
yet you support their hype.
We might need some DE/ edge rushers! so what do we do NY?
Do we go with our roster?
trade for a DL or two?
sign an expensive star FA DL?
We need to get the OL going should we:
start Peat at G
trade Parnham?
Business Decision - Jack Jones: https://x.com/mikerenner_/status/1838185957788454941?r=
We have a terrible offensive line no depth at cornerback or defensive end yet we're sitting on 30 million in cap space. Sandy
tell the NFL to give the Raiders the right to make some moves!? I said years ago.
1. MD doesn't make the decisions his staff and the NFL does.
2. the NFL/ owners wanted Al's era erased from Raiders and the vision to change to a model franchise 1. that means no speed, size and athleticism and not big spending, no elite players. now why not have elite players? if the NFL/ owners moved us to L.V. wouldn't they want us to win too?
3. this free agency system of this team isn't at all like Al or any winning GM/ staff! it just picks guys up almost anybody that played college or pro ball. why do that and not spend on star FAs' to win? we sign cheap guys and we go with that sometimes we do good with them but mostly they can't compete with teams like K.C. and Cincy because of depth and talent on the roster. but we hear that the regime i
4. we don't have a culture anymore. we gave up Al's culture for a business office. the attitude is business and those guys aren't stupid- they see the lack of loyalty to the player and probably see the lack of working on winning over working on making money so they are trying to stay healthy and get more money.
BUSINESS DECISION!?:
Al-Anon
Wow! we still have a whole season we need to look at the past or other successful team from the past to win now!
The NFL is a business and A.P. getting angry with his players just doesn't get us motivated to keep supporting the teams' game plan.
The new regimes don't make changes after things start to go wrong very good. they'll go with what they have. they refuse to spend not because it won't work but because they are stuck in a system where they have to prove they moved on from Al's vision/ system.
Its' business not the bold and obsessed commitment to dominate and be great!
Man! NY and Nate! you still think this is just bad decisions? No!, its' business
to make it clear to you!
The employees are supposed to win but they aren't Al or his people. they don't have the same obsession with winning so they do things like a corporation-
make money, save money, keep things going at a decent pace!
then add the dislike or problems with the Davis family and they may not be worried about the Raiders winning.
If they are making money, have investors, have people trying to buy the team and play in a wealthy city that has lots of businesses/ corporations that will invest in the team then they are already winners.
But they don't put that same attitude with the team. the NFL and Raiders can find ways to make more money but then they try to save money, they come up with all kinds of events to get us to spend more, hype a mediocre team, and manage player's contracts to try come out ahead or in good shape with the so-called huge contracts and avoid paying the whole contract. A team that used to give washed up, busts, ex-stars a chance now puts money ahead of winning.
Al Anon, you're flailing your arms about the words "business decision" which you've completely taken out of context. Those words were spoken by AP talking about a player(s) performance during the game. Raider Take provided a URL so you could understand the context.
Yet, you choose conspiracy over source.
There's a lot of football left this year. It's not about any conspiracy. It's about Antonio Pierce pulling the team together like he did at the end of last year and getting the most out of the players on the roster now.
At the end of the day (or in this case the season), the Raiders still need a QB. It will cost a lot, so their choice needs to be right.
Look how good Jayden Daniels is. That's who AP wanted. The Raiders reportedly tried to trade up, but they would have had to draft the 7th best QB instead of the best TE. They made the right pick.
Meanwhile, Luke Getsy looks like a mistake. It didn't take much for that to surface. Some of us have been questioning that hire since it happened.
I expect the Raiders to change course this week. As I said before, they're not as good as the Ravens win on the road but they're also not as bad as the Panthers loss at home.
Raiders and Browns both hindered by key injuries.
(Caution: please read with sarcasm. For those who don't know what sarcasm is, look it up. This is my "political/Coach-speak" word salad)
I hope that as the Raiders move forward to play the Browns this weekend, that they can look back at this embarrassing loss and it be an inspiration helping to inspire them to resolve their problems to play an inspirational game to win in an inspiring way; so they can be what they inspire to be, unburdened by what they have been.
Let it also be an inspiration to the fans helping us to be inspired to continue to cheer for our beloved team as they work through their problems in an inspiring way. May we cheer what our team can be, unburdened by what it has been.
To Raider Nate,
Al-Anon
Hey Nate! that was nice and confusing! Wow! That's as easy as you guys accuse me of being complicated. Try to change to get better and deal with the pains and problems while changing and not getting upset or infighting too much dealing with the pains and ups and downs.
O.K. so when AL was running this team he wouldn't worry about garbage time lagging he'd be worried about the team's letting bad teams beat them.
So, he'd
1. make some trades/ why of all fan we suddenly think its' bad to make trades why? so we can draft another 'Franchise' QB? with picks to trade with?
Well, maybe getting some star players might help us so we don't have to worry about a QB next year.
2. make some staff moves- maybe move some guys around might get this offense going.
3. ask the staff to use some of the speed on the team. T. McAllister hasn't played yet and they should use him as a RB/ WR. A. Gainer should get more time at LB and the TE's should all get playing time. And the RB from Minnesota should get some time.
4. spend more- the Raiders could've had some help but won't spend. maybe they should try and spend to win.
Nate, this team needs to make some moves. If they have some ideas or want to give some of their back ups a chance good, if they think they can make some trades fine but they could try and use some of Al's system too.
Al can't save us now, and he couldn't save us then, either.
Just throwing money at something is foolish. We are told to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.
Unfortunately, Telesco and Getsy both look like mistakes right now. These guys are on Mark Davis. Davis forced Champ Kelly aside, and Getsy is a byproduct of that.
Maybe we should let the Raiders fail. Losing Koonce and Epps for the year is a big blow to the defense. Raiders need too much help.
I'm sticking with my earlier prediction that the Raiders are more likely to be sellers than buyers before the trade deadline.
Well NY, if Al couldn't save a team that LOOKED(allegedly, didn't say it really was) like it could win without a help why are you defending regimes who LOOK like they can't win and need a lot of help?
All the Patriots' way, NFL and model franchise talk doesn't seem to working out!
Let the Raiders fail? No, don't need to do that! they have talent and they have a good staff. but they refuse to spend big! when do you think they should start? next year? why? after they draft their franchise QB? so we gonna have a new QB a rookie next year? and you think we will be a playoff team next year?
MD didn't hire Reggie the NFL did!
MD may've asked for Gruden II and it was a good and smart move. because it got us excited and he hired a guy who worked with Al.
MD dosen't make hires his employees do
On Mark he isn't his dad, the Rooney's or Mr. Kraft he said he doesn't know football and lets football people handle the team. Stop accusing him of things that aren't his fault!
You don't want Al's ideas and you want modern NFL football people's ideas so why are you complaining about their actions?
The NFL isn't running the Raiders. The more you suggest that the less credible you sound. Every team has to navigate the NFL, just like every business has to navigate gov't regulation.
Pro golfers don't get a handicap. Neither should multi-billion NFL franchises. But you want the Raiders to have one. Why do you insist on portraying the Raiders organization as weak and helpless?
If the Raiders can't navigate the NFL, they shouldn't be in the NFL.
It comes as no surprise to me that you don't understand my comment about letting the Raiders fail.
You want to put a band aid on everything, just like Al did. Keep plugging holes and never fix the problem.
Possibly the best thing that could happen to the Raiders is falling into an opportunity to draft a top QB. That's a long-term solution.
They don't look ready to compete at a high-level right now. Why force it?
But you insist on fixing a levy break with drain plug.
The NFL doesn't run much of anything except some things and the Raiders. billionaire owners run the NFL. the don't care about the Raiders except that Al upset them. they moved the Raiders to Las Vegas not to help them but to make money. I don't understand why fans boast about these new stadiums and all the events without asking themselves just who is the fool? cities like Oakland and fans who spend thousands on teams that are only looking at money getting screwed then the cities have to listen to owners ask for another new stadium or they'll leave or they ask cities to let them build a privately owned stadium in another site in the city when their stadium is still a good one.
And most of you fans side with the owners. You would think Raiders' fans would be wiser/ smarter than to get scammed. Al moved and then Mark allegedly does it? and for what a stadium they don't own? the NFL getting a SB in Las Vegas?to be overcharged for season tickets? to get mediocrity and a conservative culture?
Hey guys lets go to some other Raider Take old posts! just for a day! Lets go to 'I love AL DAVIS'
http://www.raidertake.com/2005/09/i-love-al-davis.html
Raiders need to make some moves. The A's screwed over their fans and MLB now they make another ridiculous move to Las Vegas and this time the move looks well, outrageous!
They'll have the smallest ball park in MLB in hot weather in a small market with, probably some very expensive tickets. I don't care how bad the O.co is this is shameful for the A's to put their fans through this. Look at the Raiders- moved to a hot area, play in a domed stadium, don't own it and now have to look at the A's playing close to them.
Maybe you should start a fund and put up a billboard.
Make moves! Spend money!
Perhaps the NFL will get your message and shake things up for the Raiders.
The Raiders are set for more failure on Sunday.
Adams is out!
Crosby is doubtful.
Munford is doubtful.
Mayer is out!
Deablo is out!
I wonder what message the NFL could be sending us with these moves.
Maybe start a fund?:
Ummmm- maybe the NFL will come up with more con games for Raidernation to buy into.
What message?:
Messages?:
1. they ain't no hurry to see us win.
2. the Raiders win when it comes to making money but not a lot with games.
3. that they run the team and you can take it or leave it.
P.S. another point:
5. that they(Raiders staff) don't have a game plan they just keep things running and their old systems- the NFL/ Patriots ways isn't working but they still use it and Raidernation keeps supporting it.
4. that they can pull the most ridiculous, shady and obvious things and just easy to see con jobs yet a fan base that is loyal is the main 1's suffering from it think they're really want to win for them.
Wow! Iron Man Crosby is out!!? I not him I thought he couldn't be hurt? No you mean Iron Maxx!? hey, you don't think it was because L.V. didn't have talent to give him and Wilkins more rest do you? hey, that Al Davis in his incompetent, senile ways might make some trades or spend big on some star free agents but we all know you don't do those things. Bellichick wouldn't do it. but we ain't Bellichick or other model franchise teams.
Vague and nonsensical.
It's not about the NFL wanting or not wanting the Raiders to win. That's ridiculous!
You're looking for a handout. You treat the Raiders like they're a welfare case. There is no accountability with you.
I hate to break this to you, but the NFL owes the Raiders nothing.
To Raidernation!
Hey, take care of yourselves,
Lets stand for a fun and safe Sunday of fans having fun!
NY Raider- Handouts!? the NFL is all about HANDOUTS!! that's why the Raiders are in L.V. now! I know you were talking about the football side- you meant the NFL doesn't have to HELP us in anything its' up to us! oh no it ain't!!! the NFL can help a team and has done it many times to get to win or even with money.
1. Moving them to L.V. was helping, helping them make the NFL wealthier.
2. getting all of these Wall Street and business people to talk to them is helping- helping the NFL.
The NFL doesn't own the Raiders anything!!!? REALLY!!!!???? ummmm-dude!!,
the combines
the merger
HBCU stars
some of the deals for t.v. contracts(Browns/ Ravens' owners Art Model is said to be the man that got that done)
some credit for "Franchise Free Agency" but T. Schram(Dallas), G. Frontier(L.A.) and J. Robbie(Miami) started it.
speeded up minority opportunities in pro sports(the NFL had an African-American HC and maybe a Hispanic 1 before coach Shell and coach Flores).
he stood up with the players against the owners' 'new' CBA.
he stood up with NFLPA boss G. Upshaw against the owners.
They don't owe us!? the guy literally helped build this league! even some haters know the NFL screwed him and some haters even had respect for him, they would put down but some didn't say the terrible things Raiders' fans said about him before/ after he passed away.
Don't owe us!? he should have his name on a sign on a street in Oakland, L.A. and maybe near NFL HQ or even a plaque in NFL HQ.
Don't owe us!? he doesn't have an award, trophy from the NFL in his name.
Don't owe us!? we have fan bases made because of him
and no team should get special treatment unless it is broke and can't make money and may fold but the NFL is giving some teams special treatment.
the Raiders were never going to get or ask for help. the NFL and Al had issues.
But the NFL could help us by letting us run our own team. we may be worse off but we'd be our own team and not have to see the NFL making moves.
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