Bengals Gameday Thread
Here we come, 2-7.
Think about it, after all of these years and coaches and draft picks, the Raiders are LOSING ground in the division.
The Broncos and Chargers are on the upswing, the Raiders are disintegrating back to square one, and now we're still likely YEARS away from any legitimate contention.
This is Mark Davis's doing. But at least he gets to rub shoulders with Tom Brady and sit next to blondes in his box and be the toast of Las Vegas while his stadium is half full of non-Raiders fans.
Good job, good effort.
I like to say GO RAIDERS, but it's like shouting into the wind these days.
posted by Raider Take at 12:04 PM
62 Comments:
To Raidernation!
Las Vegas
New Stadiums
modern football
A.P., coach Allen, Gruden/ Mayock, and the Pats' Guys!
The Patriots'/ NFL way
Bad decisions(Al)
Al's fault
Salary Cap!
Reggie did a good job!
Don't need stars(free agents)
Don't trade Jacobs
Don't trade Carr
AOC can help us win.
the NFL isn't doing anything to us!
Brady(and his partners-including R. Seymore) will take us back to glory!
Its' some of Marks' fault. we have bad owners.
Ummmm....
What we need!
protest over charged ticket prices!
write-email Raiders' and ask for answers and changes!
they're TANKING! stop thinking this is bad decisions! how many times do they have to tell you Brady and other people will soon be making decisions for us. they want a QB and they need to be able to get 1.
don't let them TANK, if we can get a star in the lower rounds lets try that or trade/ sign a young veteran. write, e-mail them WE NEED A QB BAD BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE TANKING!
MD isn't the guy we need to be blaming for this mess! its' the NFL! they ADVISE him and they tell the staff what to do in SOME things.
Don't give up on the Raiders just stop listening to the media/ NFL hype and claims about this team. they aren't very good because the NFL doesn't want them to have big name players. if they keep losing then, the new stake holders/ others in the Raiders may get more say.
fans need to tell the NFL to stop messing with us, leave the Raiders alone. the NFL wants new ownership group- they want to help us but the new group. we don't have to hate on and not accept Brady and his partners but they need to work with the culture and help and add something to it. who lets a guy with no experience run some of the front office before he works with NFL people? tell the Raiders to let him work with them not run a front office spot just because he was a super star on the field.
Fans, don't throw the Davis family under the bus.
How the Raiders have fallen... and that's no small feat when you start at nowhere and end up at total oblivion.
They are the definition of bad to worse.
That game is not worthy of a critique.
But like Al Anon says, let's protest the ticket prices. That should help. Yeah!
I expect Mark Davis to fire AP. How can he not? Every team experiences injuries and setbacks. The Raiders have allowed this to happen. They invite this sh*t. I saw better play from our local HS.
BLOW IT ALL UP!
A franchise QB and a super star future HOF'er with no experience running a department!
We just love being
You have a defensive staff that many teams would love but the D sucks!
You HAD a top receiving group maybe 1 of the best in the NFL and now its' a good, not great 1.
you just traded a star that you gave up
Palmer trade? instead of keeping a top QB Reggie traded him very cheap price. he went to the pro bowl with the Cardinals.
This isn't MD because he didn
I thought MD was:
a genius for getting the Las Vega deal done.
a better business man than Al. because he got rid
a hustling, smart and quick thinking guy because he re-hired Gruden as HC.
A good, smart right thinking owner for sticking with A.P.
NY Raider says there's no such thing as intimidation, tampering or corruption. you are what your record says you are. MD is to blame and you need a new ownership group.
Well, the NFL is controlled by wall street people, the owners and huge corporations. it can do what it wants. it has made sure nobody else will/ may not sue them the way Al did. they've tried to make sure they can't be sued, pay huge settlements or be intimidated by their players(NFL players) like in the early '00s'. they've also been tampering with the Raiders and now want a new ownership group. the Raiders are TANKING to get a good QB next year.
I don't think the Raiders are tanking, I think they are failing.
If they are tanking, it's to get high draft picks and put them under the care of a coach and GM who may not be up to the task, which sounds like history repeating itself.
Oh No NY, no you don't!
A.P. was the man!
AOC can help this team win!
Telesco can build a good team.
We got D. Adams and J. Meyers and we gonna win.
We have an elite DL and they will help win close games. they can keep us in games and get us to the playoffs.
No NY! lets keep A.P. and P. Graham and lets ask Brady to find us our next star QB and Seymore to teach the DLs'!
No! its' just bad decisions! not a mess! you and a few others supported A.P. so now you stick with him!
Lets tell Mark to let Brady and Seymore run the Raiders(some departments)!
No Brady and some staff will run team, Bellichick can come in if Brady invites him, as something else not HC and help but no, lets keep the guys you claimed were going to build a playoff team and fix this mess.
Fans, we need to email-write Raiders and tell them to please use Al's and other legends'(Jimmy Johnson's, 49ers', Steelers') ideas/ visions and yes, stop overcharging fans and let Brady help not run the front office.
NY you supported this you and other Anon, stick with them.
You supported this and listened to the media about the Raiders. you won't admit it and fans won't write the Raiders and say we need our own culture and to be the Raiders.
You tell A.P. to work harder and Mark to spend more and Brady to work with QBs.
Wait, what? Did you just point at me for the Raiders failures?
Don't be a moron.
Mark Davis is not following my instructions.
There are 100 things I would have done differently...
I wouldn't be so quick to point your finger. Everything you say is incorrect. Even with the facts at your side, you continue to gaslight.
To NY Raider,
Mark Davis again, you blame him for all of this dysfunction and other problems but I thought you were supporting him running the team didn't he?:
made the L.V. deal!
hired Gruden/ Mayock
got ADVISE and took it to hire Reggie.
hired the Pats' guys!
fired coach Del Rio
pressured coach Gruden II to resign and fired GM M. Mayock.
hired A.P. as HC
traded D. Adams for Tom Brady(and R. Seymore)?
NY, you didn't support this?
DI don't support losing.
Who do you think I am? I'm a Monday armchair QB fan. I don't make decisions. I only call it like I see it. I have opinions and sometimes they are wrong.
You live in a fantasy world which you seem to have all the answers.
Maybe you should reach out to Mark Davis. I'm sure he'd be anxious to hear from you.
You listened to none sense! a decade of absolute- ridiculous none sense!!!! you, other anon and other Raiders' fans!
sorry about Al but move on from him. go with Reggie! he learned from Wolfe and ex-Raiders advised MD to hire him. he gonna draft well, hire top coaches and take you back to glory!
any questions?: what did he do in S.F. and GB? why not a guy Al had in his front office?
the Patriots'/ 'NFL way' Al was great once but he became dysfunctional and "stuck in the past". he overspends on players, drafts for speed/ size and athleticism and keeps assistants/ friends to long and may show a little' too much loyalty to some front office people.
questions: isn't he 1 of the top GMs' in pro sports history- why say his system is too old and the cause of the slump but other systems/ idea will change the situation?
why is it Pittsburgh, S.F. and Dallas basically keeps the same team culture and ideas but we shouldn't keep ours?
Bellichick and a few others use preparation, discipline and motivation to lead his players. they avoid super stars and talented problem players(do they?) and he is no none sense/ limited with drama stars demanding big contracts- he'll get rid of them fast! and the Patriots' way is a winner!
any questions?: yea, they win but are they the only winning system in the NFL? did they really avoid star players(Revis, Talib, Burgess, Moss, A. Brown) and that's cool if stars will play for less to win I guess but will they do that for other teams to win and could there be(IMO) some intimidation/ unfair actions with player rights/ money by owners capping salaries and forcing stars to either play for less or sit out the season?
A teams' owner did a lot before he passed away to upset a questionable/ corrupt(IMO) league and his team gets very bad and can't win over a 9 year period!
any questions?: if Al is gone why are they still losing if it was his fault?
Mark is to blame! he told fans he isn't a football man and he'd let his staff run the team, but fans feel a new ownership group can turn this mess around!
any questions: what do wall street guys and 2 ex-star players know about scouting and the front office? didn't media/ NFL say Al "meddled" with his coaches and that's 1 reason for the slump? so, how can MD be to blame for letting his coaches coach?
Trading Adams, firing Gruden/ Mayock, A.P. sucking, not building a strong defense, refusing to draft elite players. isn't this like messing things up for maybe a new ownership or/ and because you want to get payback?
any questions?: if this team is messing up that bad should the HC resign or fire/ move players/ coaches? shouldn't they address the fans? shouldn't they make some moves to at least get a winning record. shouldn't they try to do something to finish the season or try to get a wildcard run? shouldn't they do something to look like they want to win and not TANKING or the NFL tampering with team?
ummmm....dude! the Raiders can be a bad team and still look like they're trying. if they want owners for the Raiders fans should be supporting the Davis family for 1 good reason. Al built this team and if Mark really was so bad an owner the NFL shouldn't do things to get him to keep selling stock to new partners.
So much righteous indignation from a guy who thinks the NFL fairy is the reason the Raiders lose.
To NY Raider,
Al Anon,
We got a lot of football left so lets support them winning out! we can stand a veteran QB or a future starter from the lower rounds.
To sit here and ask the question whats the problem with this team and not see that
maybe they're a terrible regime
its' a dysfunction in the air/ locker room
Fairy tales?:
Rob Lytle funble was a fairy tale?
S. Peyton QUITTING the Raiders' job after somebody told/ asked him not to accept the job from Raiders?
refs' questionable actions over the years at Raiders' games? a fairy tale?
Elway conspiracy was a fairy tale?
Moving a team from a good sized market(Oakland) to a smaller one w/ bad weather(heat, L.V.)? and not even trying to keep it in it's host city? that's a fairy tale?
A losing team refusing to:
draft elite college players.
elite HCs'.
the top FAs'
keep its' own star players.
A team that is:
obsessed with players from Ohio State and Alabama U. and keeps drafting them but they don't do well in L.V./ Oakland? that's not a fairy tale?
to over work star defensive players to squeeze all that money out of them and not get them help(star veterans FAs'/ trades) and to have to rest them(stars) more without good back ups/ more talent(back ups , trades) to keep the defense going? that's not a fairy tale?
A team that trades a star WR to a team for a small price. and no other team with big needs and/ or trying to make the playoffs didn't have a better offer. BTW...WR goes to his ex-teammates/ friends' team and its' possibly now able to go to the playoffs? and that's not a fair tale? and that's not a staged scam?
Getsy fired.
Addition by subtraction.
Bo Hardigree has to be shaking his head right now.
It's the right move, and one I've been predicting since the off-season.
To any previous disbelievers who might have thought it was a player or injury issue, this is a very definitive response by the Raiders only nine games into the season.
Most of us know the Raiders don't fare well with ZBS which Getsy employs, badly. The Raiders line was not built for zone blocking, and it's pretty obvious they never adjusted to it.
My next prediction: If AP sticks with ZBS, he'll be the next to go. But I think he goes back to what was working last year.
The Getsy firing is a microcosm of who the Raiders have been for the past 22 years. Well-intentioned but uninformed decision-making followed by abrupt change and starting over (every couple of years).
I don't see the Raiders - in a Brady world - sticking with Antonio Pierce. That means this isn't over. It's just a question of when. End of season or middle of 2025.
It's the Raiders!
(Not the NFL Fairy.)
Not just Getsy, James Cregg (O-Line Coach) and the QB Coach has been let go. This is a HUGE step in the right direction, in fact, I'd dare to say these clowns should have never been hired. Getsy is a HS caliber coach and shouldn't be in the NFL. Immediate rumors are that Scott Turner (son of Norv Turner) or Edgar Bennett will take over as OC. I'm not sure about Bennett taking over, he didn't want it last year. Not sure who they will land as O-Line Coach, but Fred Walker (Asst QB Coach) will probably move up.
Rumblings about Pierce being let go at the end of the season. Not sure. I think if he lost the locker room, then yes, but I don't think that has happened. I go back to what I said in the last post, his problem may be too many voices and chiefs helping him. Stick with Lewis, let the others go. If Pierce is let go, I fully expect Ben Johnson (Lions OC) to be the new HC.
In other news, Dennis Allen was fired as Saints Head Coach. Darren Rizzo takes over as Interim, not Klint Kubiak. IMO, Kubiak will probably get the job in the offseason, depending on how the Saints move forward. A HUGE part of the grumblings is also that Derek Carr may be done with the Saints organization too. He is not getting along with a lot of his teammates, and former WR Michael Thomas blew him up on Twitter yesterday. A situation to watch for sure.
There is also rumblings that the Raiders may make a move to bring Jon Gruden in as OC. Will the NFL allow that? Would AP be ok with that?
To Raidernation,
Al Anon
So that's it!? they fire Getsy and other assistants!?
Getsy didn't trade Adams for a 3rd round pick.
ZBS or "west coast" if you don't put good players out there you're going to have problems scoring points.
Getsy didn't tall them not to bring in a star veteran QB!
All this does is give fans something to talk/ calm down about! the Raiders are playing games and fans will be a little less upset, calmer and get some anger out but now, they can get away with not doing anything and then fire more assistants to give fans some actions to look like the team is making moves and fans can let some frustration/ anger out.
The Raiders are trying to get some drama and get the fans to keep spending on them. they've bought in new partners and they're gonna let them make decisions! guys who no front office experience?
They fire Getsy but won't make moves to build a good team and maybe try to finish with a winning record. Getsy didn't ruin this season the Raiders didn't work hard to build winning team.
NY Raider thinks its bad decisions or bad coaches, fans need to look at the Raiders moves because they seem to be very shady and done for a reason. it's not a fairy tale to IMO point out or suspect corruption. fans need to talk or email, write the Raiders.
Dumping the O-line coach with Getsy probably signals an end to ZBS. Thankfully!
Outside looking in, the current Raiders problems look too familiar.
On offense, they regularly started games throwing on 1st and 2nd down and often scored on first drives. After initial drives they became insanely predictable with runs and 1st and 2nd downs, often leaving 3rd and long (3-and-outs). It seems like the same plan in every game.
On defense, Patrick Graham did not learn from last year and reverted back to soft coverages which allow opposing QBs to pick apart the Raiders defense. By the time he tightens the coverage (like yesterday), it's too late.
This has been the M.O. of the Raiders all season. It doesn't seem overly complex, yet it doesn't get fixed. The Raiders have to be the most predictable team in the NFL.
The Raiders are not a good team and they don't appear to have any direction.
Pierce's job is not safe, especially, now that he has to start over on offense after only 9 games.
We've seen so many low points in 22 years, but this might be among the worst. A team with no QB and no direction.
It's the Raiders!
(It's not the NFL fairy.)
Al helped bring the NFL and the players together.
Al fought the NFL and the billionaire owners over the "new" CBA.
Al helped NFLPA boss G. Upshaw fight the owners/ NFL over the "new" CBA.
He paid guys because they were stars.
Now if there's no conspiracy NY:
why would the NFL players threaten to strike?
why would the players work with Al if they thought he was dysfunctional.
No(elite/ star) players want to go to Oakland.
Its' a place were careers go to die.
No elite/ top coaches want to work for Al.
The culture is toxic and the locker room is bickering and negative.
Al won't let his staff coach!
Al put Raiders in salary cap H_ _ l! he overspent on players
Jamarcus set this team back for years and was the worst 1st overall pick in NFL history!
Al was stuck in the past, maybe senile and paranoid. he needs to step down and let another GM run the team.
Raiders lack discipline, aren't well coached or organized
Gannon, Gruden(Allen) and
The loss the Bucs and coach Gruden shocked/ demoralized Raiders so bad they couldn't get over it.
Raiders don't have any talent.
The "dumbest team in America"!
When all of this started the Raiders were defending AFC Champions and the media/ NFL kept saying that until Al passed away.
Listen from '03-'11 few teams had as many good assistants and a genius like Al running them.
Al paid stars to win if they wanted somebody to pay them less and discipline them they should've signed with other teams. these guys and some of you guys agree with me on this, quit on the Raiders. how is that Al's fault? that's not a bad team, that's guys who 'screwed' their boss.
The Raiders locker room was toxic because the NFL, the media and guys who quit the team, the losing made it seem that way when it really was not there was some bickering, toxic work place and negativity but not as bad as the media/ NFL wanted us to believe.
The Raiders were famous for giving guys a 2nd chance when did they become the place where careers go to die?
If guys didn't want to play in Oakland which now we know somebody was telling/ asking guys to reject Al's offers, why would they want him to help them fight the league/ owners?
Who hired these bums that needed to be fired after nine games?
Adams apparently saw it quicker than Pierce and wanted out.
IMO, Pierce will need to do more than just recover from Getsy. He will need to make a difference to stay with the team. Otherwise, he's toast.
Crosby said he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, but that's exactly what he's facing with the Raiders. So much so, I'm worried he gets traded in the Raiders desperation to get a QB in 2025.
Bad decision-making started in 2001 when Al traded Gruden. Al started this spiral and it's become a curse.
Raiders can fire the OC, the HC, the GM, it doesn't matter.
Only Mark Davis can fire the owner by selling the team. That"s what is needed.
Gruden part lll......Wow, talk about being out of ideas.
Looking at a long rebuild for Raiders. They are a two man team, Crosby, and Bowers. Raiders need a ground up rebuild. Good luck to us all.
Take, Tom Telrsco brought in Getsy and crew. AP wanted Kingsbury, but Telesco wouldnt give him 3 years
Ghost I think there are other talents here to build with Crosby and Bowers. Spillane, Moehrig, Bennett, JPJ, Parham, Wilkins, Koonce, and don't look now, but Tyree Wilson is showing some spark. I do think we have a lot of holes as well.
To Ghost!
Al-Anon
I know you want to
didn't hire Reggie
didn't hire the Pat's Guys
may have hired Gruden/ Mayock
didn't put money into the CA Raiders' HQ knowing they were going to move to L.V.
didn't have anything to do with the D. Adams trade.
MD is an owner, that's it he lets/ expects his front office handle football side issues. ownership didn't have anything to do with the actions of the staff. the NFL is who need to look at if you want to know who makes decisions for the Raiders.
Fans keep waiting for this team to turn their mess around they think all of the NFL problems with the Raiders are over with Al gone. the media says something questionable hires and big hype and sometimes almost ridiculous moves and new regimes and fans listen to them. no matter who the Raiders hire fans just support them and don't question them.
but talk about a legend/ icon who was a football man and they will reject that idea and tell you they don't think that's a good idea and that sucks.
Mark isn't the problem. this team is being told what to do by the NFL. fans want to win and they'll listen to things that other fans wouldn't go for.
Ghost Ship,
Al-Anon
Sorry I was talking/ posting about MD and what fans are doing to him. its' unfair.
MD didn't:
hire Reggie.
didn't have anything to do with the Adams' trade.
didn't really have much to do with the L.V. move.
didn't hire the Pats' Guys and didn't make a big deal if he was happy with the Jimmy G. signing.
didn't ask Reggie to fire almost all of his dad's employees when he(Reggie) become the GM.
may have hired Gruden II
may have fired coach Del Rio
didn't want to spend money building up the Raiders' CA training facility knowing they were moving to L.V.
I was saying Raidernation has been conned/ scammed
Raiders' haters are confused and sad because they can't hate something that joke/ comedy show and disgrace like this.
Nate, IMO, the Getsy hire is on Pierce. Head coaches hire their own coordinators. If Telesco was on orders to keep contracts short, then that's on Mark Davis.
Clearly, the difference between Getsy and Kingsbury - who's lighting it up with the Commanders - is night and day.
Now there's speculation of more past coaches returning to the Raiders, like Norv Turner.
I'm with you, Ghost, the Raiders have run out of ideas. They may have devolved into the most pathetic version we've ever seen. My fear is that they are now so desperate for a QB they may make another big mistake.
BTW, Nate, Spillane and Moehrig are free agents next year. It will be very hard for the Raiders to retain these guys.
AL ANON,
As I remember it, John Madden & Ron Wolf recommended Reggie McKenzie to Mark Davis, so Mark hired him.
I also recall Mark Davis being very involved in the firing of Reggie's guy, Dennis Allen, and the hiring of Jack Del Rio.
And there's no doubt MD pursued, and hired John Gruden.
Mark Davis' fingerprints are all over the failure that hangs over Raiders like a dark cloud.
So you just answered your/ our(fan's) question! it wasn't Mark's decision was it?
No, MD had nothing to do with Reggie being hired or fired! he did his job...erasing or trying to erase Al's era from team.
What did Reggie even know about the Raiders' staff back then? nothing! so wouldn't a 1st time GM keep some of those if not most of the older employees for a year or so and see if he wants to keep them longer? and if they didn't make decisions but Al did why do they get blame for the 9 year slump with Al?
No, MD didn't make a lot of those decisions because he had ADVISERS and those ADVISERS don't seem to be very good. I don't think they liked Al and don't think they like us a whole lot. and I don't think Madden or Wolfe told MD to let Reggie fire all of his dad's employees.
MD didn't make most of the decisions and fans want a new ownership group to try and fix this mess. but maybe they should remember who built the Raiders.
Uninformed as usual...
"Mark Davis didn't hire Reggie McKenzie and Reggie McKenzie didn't know anything about his coaching staff."
How do you expect readers to take you seriously?
Reggie didn't know anything about Al's last staff! nothing! and he probably didn't care/ want to know!
Now, I don't think some of you guys know just how good his staff was! it was basically the same that helped Gruden win those 3-4 playoff years and it helped get Cable to 8-8 and Hue to 8-8('11)
It had some of the best assistants in the NFL and Reggie didn't even low down in firing them.
You guys(some) say Al made the decisions and his staff listened to him. so why blame them.
You wanted to win so badly that you thought Reggie was getting rid of maybe good staff but he'd build a top team with better staff.
Reggie didn't know his own staff, I think the NFL helped him build it but they wouldn't let him bring in any elite coaches.
Raiders may not make any trades so that's nothing new. they won't try to fill holes instead, they'll just keep their draft picks hoping to get a "franchise QB" again. they've said that a few times with different regimes maybe even before Carr left.
No they won't try to fill holes and help out Crosby, build the secondary or at least make it decent or get OL help. no, they'll just hold those picks till next year. oh, sometimes they'll make a big trade but only if it messes them up and/ or helps the other team(Adams, A. Brown). fans think MD/ Raiders won't listen to their complaints then maybe they should just email them to tell them hype and the NFL's charms/ flattery and lying and brainwashing isn't helping them hide that they are making the Raiders are bad team and trying to get fans to go with their plans for a franchise QB and new partnership with two ex-star players, having more say.
Raiders name Scott Turner as interim OC, Joe Philbin as O-Line coach, and hire Norv Turner as Senior Offensive advisor. What? Art Shell wasn't available? How about Tom Flores? I've said it so many times, and I will say it again; Antonio Pierce's downfall will be the hiring of too many chiefs. Give yourself a voice here, make the team what you want it to be. I'm glad he is wanting mentors who have been there; but how much say they have; and if they are all on the same page remains to be seen. Usually, the answer is if too many people have a voice, you will hear too many different voices.
Nate, I agree. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Even with all the experience and help, Pierce still had to fire his OC, 9 games in.
Al hired inexperienced and low-budget coaches which he could control. Al had the chops to make that work early in his career but failed leading up to Gruden I, then traded Gruden to the Bucs and proceeded to fail again for an entire decade. It was a miserable period of 2-14, 5-11, etc.
We are being gaslighted by a nut who thinks Al assistants during that period were "the best." Yet, he posted in the last thread that John Madden wasn't a great coach.
He's a huge fan of Norval Turner and is probably beside himself with glee right now at the prospect. I don't know his son, Scott. Maybe he can help.
But this guy wants the Raiders to spend money now, with the season in the crapper, instead of holding onto resources for next year.
He posts like George Castanza. Always wrong.
It's remarkable!
Well, I heard that it was Al being the 1 boss that was the problem? that modern teams let people talk?
They at least, if only staged to keep us spending money, went out and got veteran guys. all they need now is to be the real Raiders.
The thing that may be questionable is- why not make a few trades for some good players and not just get new assistants? they seem to be using that "coach 'em up" plan/ approach and just keep draft picks, players in trades and/ or save money and not bring in star FAs'.
Its' a good move but it's hype/ distracting the fan base from asking why are you worrying about the draft and not making a playoff run now?
To NY Raider,
Al-Anon
INEXPERIENCE!!!! that's what we really have been looking for! that's what we need!!! wow! all this time we've supported inexperienced and mediocre front office people and listened to them tell us we don't need big, fast players or elite coaches!!
Wow! what have these new regimes done after holding on to players/ draft picks after another losing season?:
reached for a lot of guys in the draft. and refused to draft 1 elite player. Bowers is the 1st elite player drafted by Raiders since K. Mack('14).
make a bad trade for a top star NFL player only to let the guys who might help him help us win go.
not make any moves before the trade deadline.
wow! NY this is what we should keep listening to!? don't you think making some trades and spending big might help us? and maybe get the staff to get excited and coach better and come up with game plans to win and maybe get some more good player to help us win?
Al hired inexperienced coaches?: Al was a GM, HC and owner. he was a good guy to learn from. so an inexperienced HC might learn from him.
BTW...Turner was a long time OC
Cable had been an assistant HC maybe in college and pros
Hue was an OC, Shell was an ex-HC and long time assistant'
Kiffin was inexperienced you have a point with him.
To NY Raider,
Al-Anon
Some of the guys who worked for Al's era between '03 and '11:
J. Harbaugh- Stanford U., 49ers, Michigan U. and Chargers' HC.
B. Shaw- Stanford HC
John Feassel(deceased): son of a coach was 1 of the best special teams coaches in the NFL. Reggie fired him and he went to a SB with the Rams.
B. Musgrave- some fans like him. worked for Al and Reggie.
R. Woodson- a very good DB coach but again, Reggie fired him.
Next time you want to attack Al's era make sure you know what you're talking about/ look at your questions/ claims before you make your point.
NY,
I think the view of Al's control of the team is a little skewed. Maybe it was more recent toward the end of his life; but he let the coaches coach, with the exception of an occasional call to the sidelines to "Go Deep" as Jon Gruden put it. Al was more concerned about his coaches steering the locker room. He wanted the players to have fun, play to their strengths and personality, and Just Win, Baby!
There were only 3 coaches he hired that did not have a lot of coordinator/coaching experience: Art Shell, Lane Kiffin, and Tom Cable. Shell had only been the O-line coach, but was an up and coming coach; and Al struck when the pan was hot. Lane was a co-Coordinator with Sarkisian at USC. Al wanted Sarkisian, and when he turned it down, turned to Kiffin. Tom Cable was an O-line Coach who really didn't know anything else, and relied on Davis. With Kiffin, Shanahan, and Cable as HC is where the narratives started that Al micro-managed the Raiders; but if you listen to Amy Trask, Madden, Flores, Plunkett, Tim Brown, and those close to Al, you hear a different story.
Now Al did hire a lot of HC that didn't have a lot of HC experience, but had great Coordinator experience. Joe Bugel, Norv Turner, Mike White, Tom Flores, Jon Gruden, Bill Callahan, Hue Jackson, Mike Shanahan, and John Rauch. Most of these turned out to be great HC, and some did not. But that is the name of the game. Al had more success in finding hidden talent and hidden gems in coaching.
Well I don't think many people, critics and Raidernation would argue that point except NY Raider and other Anon. Al was a great judge of coaching talent and what some fans/ people reading sports news don't understand but haters pretend to ignore was he was a football man with experience so he could help his coaches learn the game and other things.
It was a huge edge for guys to get tips and taught by him. but something happened after the Super Bowl Nate. the game got new so new that it wasn't a good thing to learn from legends no, college OCs', OCs' and other coaches knew had the vision/ ideas to take the league and add new things to it.
No, Al was stuck in the past, his teaching was too old to help new coaches. billionaire owners and other coaches knew more about football than he did and it was good and smart of coaches to reject his offers.
You wanted billionaires, wallstreet people, ownership groups and other coaches to teach a coach more football things. Al was just passed by a new NFL. I mean, who would want a guy who was a HC, commissioner, assistant, scout and GM? right nobody! he was good in his day back in the 60's but young college OCs' and NFL assistants can help a coach better than a legend.
That's what NY Raiders may be trying to say and that's what the media has been telling us since '11. when you think of the way the media has conned us its' just plain comedy.
Make sure you get your medicines and prescriptions for flu season! make sure to understand what that vaccine stuff is supposed to do and what it really is. find out the news/ rumors about it and make a smart/ wise decision. you should talk to the doctors, vaccine companies(web) and people who took the vaccines then decide if you want to take it/ them.
But maybe you should try to get other ways to deal with the flu ask the doctor and go to the drug store and ask how to handle flu season without the vaccines.
Hey Patriots' fan!!!!
The Raiders are being unfairly judged and making moves that look like TANKING! I think they should be the Raiders' not the west coast Patriots! Brady and Seymore are in the Raiders' family now but I think they shouldn't be made bosses until we know, they know what jobs they are supposed to be doing!
Hope the Raiders and the New England Patriots' stars can work together but we want to keep our team the Raiders' team. we want to keep our identity and culture.
Nate, Davis controlled the staff, and many assistant coaches would survive several HC regime changes. Those "loyal" staff reported directly to Davis.
That was why Davis could ONLY hire inexperienced head coaches or head coaches at the bottom of the market who perhaps had no other HC options. No top tier HC would work in that environment, nor would Davis pay for their skills because Davis wanted to be in charge.
Al Anon,
If you want to give MD a pass for hiring Reggie, I think that's fair. He was a novice owner, and you can't blame him for taking the recommendation of two football greats, Madden, & Wolf.
Reggie was actually a good hire, except that he whiffed on picking Dennis Allen as the HC. But Reggie had some very good drafts.
But MD wasn't going to stay in the shadows for long. When Dennis Allen started to fizzle, MD jumped in and started making moves. He personally interviewed Jack Del Rio, and wanted to hire him no matter what Reggie thought.
Then it was Gruden, which was all MD's creation. The rest is history. MD is pulling the strings for the Raiders, and the strings are held together with very weak threads.
A bit ironic that Dennis Allen and Derek Carr have failed together twice. Both times it was Allen that was sent packing. In fairness to Carr, Allen had one foot out the door when Carr showed up in Oakland.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon
AFC West bye week!
Raiders need to get some help for Crosby. he plays too hard to keep on the field for a long time! I didn't say get a big time player, just a good back up that can rest Crosby and DT A. Butler.
Re-sign WR H. Renfrow. I mean, with Adams gone another star WR would be huge in getting the QBs' some play makers.
Huh? Maxx Crosby needs a rest?
Did you ask him that?
And for a guy who pushes vaccines on a Raiders blog, it doesn't seem to bother you that Renfrow has a history of concussions and perhaps shouldn't play at all, particularly on a Raiders offense that can't protect him with decent QB play.
IDK, it just seems like you continue to be on the opposite side of the facts in every discussion.
To NY Raider,
Al Anon
H. Renfrow has concussions?: So that's why nobody signed him? I didn't know he had concussion issues.
nobody to get Renfrow the ball?: You were an AOC fan and you thought he could help us win at least have a winning record if we missed the playoffs.
Yes NY Crosby can't carry a whole DL by himself and it might help him if somebody could keep the DL playing good/ well when Crosby is resting. yea, I don't think a team should keep a guy on the field at certain positions all the time whether the want to or not or can do it or not. the "new" Raiders expect a few guys to carry a whole unit and try to squeeze all of the money they paid them out of them. this is 1 reason they team is losing. their stars sometimes carry a whole offense/ defense and get injured trying to do it and miss time. Crosby and Wilkins got injured probably because the Raiders don't give them enough rest. being smarter than everybody else and being conservative in spending and squeezing(trying to) all of the money out of a guy by keeping them on the field a lot isn't may not be that good a move.
Get your vaccine info, get the info. and also get info on other ways to deal with flu/ colds. its' winter and people need to be able to deal with the flu/ colds.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon
I mean, be very careful about vaccines, get as much info on them and maybe don't take them!!
Maybe another cold/ flu shot or prescription can help and not those Corna Virus vaccines as the main thing to do.
I think maybe you shouldn't take the shot unless they tell you more to do to avoid taking it or what the side effects are. maybe taking other things some prescriptions and over the counter medicines might help or, another kind of shot that isn't these vaccines.
But people need to learn what those Corona Virus vaccines are/ have in them and if they can/ should use other ways/ things(foods and over the counter medicines) for cold/ flu season.
To Raidernation,
Al-Anon
Bye week
We got a good staff so we might try to look for a "franchise QB" in lower rounds. if we can find 1 in lower rounds, we have the coaches and if Brady can help us find good QBs' to add to his list to scout then we might be able to draft an elite defensive player in the 1st round.
We need to get healthy and get our DLs' back to help Crosby. I don't see why some fans think he should do what he wants and play every down when that's a quick way to get injured and he needs more rest.
The Raiders need to stop being silly and let Mattison run! Zeus should get some time to get going but Mattison has helped keep the running game looking better than it is and should have a chance to get some time and help team win.
They need some bold moves a trade for a veteran CB to put with J. Jones. Lets
QBs'- new Raiders and Tom Brady
RBs'- new Raiders
WRs'- Al/ get some fast guys nobody worries about the receiving
TE- X leave it alone when they are healthy they have a top NFL unit.
OL- Al/ you want guys like Upshaw, Mosebar, Vella and Shell and Wisnewski- the Raiders put big money in the OL years ago but they should try and find some guys like these.
Kickers- X
DL Al!!!!!!/ get some biggger, faster and athletic DLs'. add some veteran FA's and you might have a good DL.
LB- new Raiders/ find some good OLBs'. they need to go with a 4-3 or 3-4 but they need stop using only 2 LBs' in their defense.
CB- Al!!!!!/ get track star DBs' and coach 'em up or draft a top CB.
punter- X
K.C. is a greedy team! in fact, they are acting much like Al's Raiders! its' sad that fan
K.C. old ways: build an awesome defense, then get some veteran QB(they didn't really do well in the draft until Mahomes) and find a good deal(not cheap like us) at RB and make a playoff run.
Denver: find that veteran QB or trade for a draft pick(C. Morton 70's, P. Manning FA and J. Elway trade with Colts 80's)
they haven't really been geniuses drafting QBs' either. But they build defenses like geniuses and this is why they succeed because they have strong LB and secondary units but now, lately, they've found star DLs'. they may have stars on offense but they win with their defenses and strangely they don't go after a lot of top defensive FAs' or draft elite college stars.
LAC's: it starts with the QB like Denver but they usually draft elite QBs'(Fouts, E. Manning-DNP, P. Rivers) or find stars in lower rounds(D. Brees). the old Chargers were known for their receivers/ TEs. offense was always the their system. well, they have an elite QB(J. Herbert) and 2 top NFL DLs' but need WRs/ TEs. the defense needs a star NG and some LBs'. most of the time they don't worry about an elite defense they don't put it over the offense. they don't always have very good/ great defense but they have great offenses so they don't worry that much about it. they may spend/ draft for top receivers or try something else, Harbaugh may try something balanced, maybe a decent receiving plan or the old top receiving plan or something else.
The Raiders don't use any of Al's ideas and maybe they should. they had a genius and there also are other great teams/ front offices they can learn from. they are doing things the same why they did when Reggie took over and the Pat's guys took over. they need to try using their own ideas.
They don't have a lot of ideas so they may want to use ideas from past great teams. 1 thing they need to do is to not let these ADVISERS give them bad advise.
they should get advise from them but they shouldn't do everything the NFL wants them to do. they need to spend and get some star players and try to find veteran FA's that can help as back ups. they can get a strong defense and find some good veterans to add depth.
with good/ star starters and depth
They can still be a model franchise but not like the others, have a culture and their own system. be conservative but spend big sometimes on star FAs' and use the talent they have. and new partners can help but they can't run a department.
To Raidernation,
Al-Anon
Tank for a "franchise QB"? No, take a QB in later rounds and try to find a steal/ very good 1.
let Brady have say in the team's football side plans?
trade up in the draft! if they want a QB that bad but make sure they spend big on FA's to help the team win in '25.
make a playoff run now!?/ there are still some top FA's out there and maybe the Raiders could win out and end the season with a winning record. we won't get the top college QB but we will have some staff and Brady helping to find a star/ steal QB in later rounds.
hire Bill Bellichick as HC?
hire B. Bellichick as GM?
DE's we need a star college DE/ edge and a decent veteran FA.
Well, since you guys are away for awhile we
No TANKING!- just try to do the best you can and try to win out have a winning record. then try to find a future starter in lower rounds.
Pick a CB in the 1st round! this team needs a top CB. if they can find 1, then maybe they can have that top defense they claimed/ fans thought they had this year. Jones is good but not great and he needs help, Bennett is getting better but he's not a starter level CB yet.
let somebody other than Brady and Seymore run the front office. hey, they might surprise/ kick butt in the front office but veteran staff should have their say. we have good staff some veteran guys who may know how to find good college players and they should be the 1s' in charge.
Will the Raiders get an elite HC or keep A.P.? why did it take Brady to tell us to hire an elite HC(Bellichick)? maybe A.P. should stay and they get him a QB and some defensive players. I think they might want to bring in Bellichick to help Telesco or Brady find a QB.
We got to compete with K.C. and LACs'. Al would try to match up with these 2, Denver is good but these 2 will be dominating the AFC West if the Broncos and Raiders don't build up their rosters. the Raiders just sign/draft guys, they don't try to out do the AFC West! they need speed, cover LBs' and some DBs' to compete with K.C.
Don't ware out Wilkins and Crosby! No NY!, you don't keep your best players on the field and give them props for wanting to stay out on the field and not rest! that's the conservative way and squeeze all the money(conract)
out of the guy- that will get a guy injured! they need to sign good back up DLs' for the DL so these 2 can get time to rest.
defense or offense in '25 draft!?
Sanders is a good QB but A. Manning is a back(I think) so they'll have to look hard at the QBs. they're not going to draft an elite WR, they've got Bowers, Meyers and Bryant at TE so they'll go after a QB or OT. yep, I mean a LT, I think they could get top player for K. Miller. he could help a contender make a playoff run. I hope they'll keep him but they can draft a top LT in the draft and hope that Glaze is the answer at RT.
A CB would be a huge help for this team. we don't have the same love of DBs' Al's era did and its' sad fans think its' just fine. if we trade down in the 1st round we still could get an elite CB. fans thinking we are o.k. in the secondary aren't asking questions or looking at this and last year's games much.
Having Brady and Seymore may help but it also make fans a little naive. we threw Al under the bus, we have questions about Reggie and we rejected Ziegler. we didn't want to put down/ throw under the bus Gruden/ Ziegler but after the situation with the emails and the bad drafts we were upset with Gruden II- but he picked some outstanding stars and he/ Mayock rebuilt our special teams and its' 1 of the best in the NFL. he just had the email situation and some bad drafts.
But Brady isn't a football man and fans need to question the game plan. let the Raiders run their program and Brady is the new student/ exec- he should help not run the team.
NFL doesn't tamper? what's wrong with the Cowboys then. I like the Eagles and Commanders but the Commanders are suddenly big time team. after, Snyder sold them! what was the problem with Snyder-? well, he paid big money to his players. was there a conspiracy against him? no, there was a move to let him know he needed to stop doing that or get Al's punishment!
Washington lost for 2 reason when Snyder ran the team. the NYG's were contenders, Dallas would upset them and sometimes they sucked but the NFL also was tampering with them! Snyder loses his team and its' because he was a terrible guy and a lot of bad things were going or, was it because the NFL wanted him to make some big changes he refuse to make?
1. the team nick name. totally agree- yea he should'a changed that name its' offensive and wrong! but that was an excuse by the NFL to get rid of Snyder. what the NFL wants is some kind of fake social change thing. they want social change then all 32 teams almost refuse to draft HBCU players? it wasn't for social change they got rid of Snyder, they wanted him to do the fake social change and he was upsetting the other owners with his Al Davis like actions(over spending on players that made all owners have to pay their players more money).
2. Snyder was well overspending on players. he would go after the elite guys- nothing wrong with that unless you're the Raiders but he wouldn't get them to take less money! he ran the team like Al ran the Raiders in fact, got advice from him sometimes.
3. Snyder was trying to be a friend to Al and was with some of his ideas.
4. Snyder was supposed to be like 30 other owners and go social change and maybe he did with other things but not with the 'nickname' of the team, that made the sponsors, politicians and other owners upset.
Well, Snyder sells his team after a scandal and an embarrassing list of stories about the team.
Most of the rumors/ stories seemed to be true but its' funny that the the NFL went hard after Snyder and I admit they went after SOME owners for racists and sexist scandals/ situations but seems they really wanted Snyder out of the NFL.
IMO...maybe Snyders should've been punished for the scandal and pressured heavily if not forced to give up sponsorship and other money making things and covered negatively/ criticized by NFL media for the teams old 'nickname' but he shouldn't've lost his team. he should've been able to keep his team.
Hey Raidernation!,
Al-Anon
Happy veterans' day!
So what can Raidernation do for the rest of fans and haters who feel down(fans) and up(haters) and want to know if the Nation is giving up on the team!
And do we go for the changes they've made on the staff and wait for what they plan to do to coach 'em up or do we ask them to make a run for a winning record and try to find a "franchise QB" in lower rounds?
Why not make a run for a winning record? we can draft an elite CB or trade down!? if Glaze is a future starter at RT then we can focus on DL, CB and QB in the 1st round.
Lots of criticism of the front office yet, the media doesn't question the system! why? its' an NFL way/ Bellichick system and I don't think I've heard them say why don't the Raiders draft better, draft like a bad team does and get the elite college guys and why not bring in some star FAs'- why don't they try to find stars instead of cheaper FA veterans and not bring in more star players?
Rattler
make Pr the starter
sign TP2
R. Tannehill
#1 trade for M. Stafford
trade for D. Carr
trade for M. Barkely in the off season.
QBs' part 2
trade for S. Rattler
make D. Ridder the starter
trade for M. Mariota
trade for C. Rush
keep G. Minshew
Al Anon, do you read your posts? Geez!
Here's something you can take to the bank. From media:
"There is no positive way to spin the Raiders' 2-7 record or try to paint the current season as anything less than a total failure."
The season is over. Wanting the Raiders to make some half-ass comeback during the second half of the season is simply wishing for Pierce to retain his job. Not sure that's the best result for the Raiders after seeing the first half of the season play out.
Your solutions represent more failure. Get a new schtick.
Maybe not but I can bring back the hype and big talk they(the media) were selling us when the season started!:
1. the Raiders are a much better team and have a young HC(A.P.). it may be slow and have growing pains and, some fans may worry L.V. didn't interview any of the elite coaches looking for a job but this team is better than last year and will be in the playoff talk.
2. they have a top DL and t
3. they should let AOC start ahead of
4. Denver and LACs' are not good teams and are having big problems, the Raiders may be able to finish 2nd possibly upset K.C. for the division title.
Well, the Raiders had a mediocre defense- mainly because they didn't have a decent LB unit or they didn't put 3 LB's in the base defense.
They didn't get any star veteran CBs' to help J. Jones against the pass. once again, they refused to spend more on veteran/ star veteran FAs' to add depth to the DL.
They get a QB(Minshew) and he as a whole war room of big time play makers. but they don't do much to protect him and once again they trade the X-factor(Adams) that might help him win.
They then decide AOC can light things up/ get the offense going well, that didn't work. Now they want another QB to lead the team.
They sit before the trade deadline just like they've done since Reggie was GM. this is a huge set back, they never make big moves to bring in play makers. they make big trades then make it harder for the new guy to do anything.
The AFC West is not a bad division both Denver and LAC's have better records. all of the negative things the media said about them was just talk, and didn't make it easier for fans or
make them feel better about the Raiders or make those stories true.
. Al's Raiders didn't worry about how a team was doing they just tried to beat them.
Trade for Rattler? No thanks! He did worse his two starts with the Saints than Carr has done. His playing time in New Orleans has shown people that he was drafted way too high.
With Dak, Jordan Love, and Trevor Lawrence getting extensions, they are off the market for Free Agency. However, the way the Cowboys and Jags seasons have gone, both could be considered for trade. Lawrence was recently benched for Mac Jones, and Doug Pederson may be on his way out as HC. I'd try and trade for Lawrence over Ridder, Rattler, Minshew, Cooper Rush, Mariota, Tannehill, Stafford, or Carr.
The top Free Agents at QB this offseason will be Sam Darnold, Russell Wilson, Justin Fields, Jameis Winston, Joe Flacco, Jacoby Brissett, Mac Jones, Andy Dalton, Mason Rudolph, and Carson Wentz. I would seriously consider Russell Wilson, Jacoby Brissett, and Justin Fields (in that order); or we can take our chances drafting a QB and getting an OC that can help a new QB thrive.
There are a lot of O-Lineman this next Free Agency that I'm looking at, especially interior that we need. Najee Harris and Nick Chubb are the only RBs in Free Agency I am targeting.
Yuk!
None of those QBs can win with the Raiders, some because they suck and others because the Raiders O-line can't protect them.
Sam Darnold is headed to become the most overpaid QB in the NFL, next to his Vikings predecessor, Kirk Cousins.
The Steelers managed to get Wilson and Fields for a song, but you know if the Raiders pursue either one it will cost us a fortune.
Desperate teams do desperate things.
It would be very Al Davis-esk to buy into the hype of a QB who does well this year only to have them face-plant as a Raider.
Nate, Marcus Mariota? You too? If Mariota was a starter, he'd be a starter.
That's a very depressing list. The Raiders are screwed at QB.
NY, go back and read my post, I'm not in favor of Mariota. I said I'd rather trade for Trevor Lawrence over any of the QB's that Al Anon mentioned, which included Mariota with Spencer Rattler, et al. The only Free Agent QBs I'd pursue is Wilson, Brissett, or Fields (and in that order), if they decide to go the Free Agent route.
Hey Raidernation!
Al-Anon
Well NY, if we
Mariota- just good enough to to get us to a winning record, maybe not the playoffs but more wins. but if they find a star WR he might lead us to the playoffs. with some patience and coaching to stay in the pocket more we'd have a veteran with some mobility. maybe him being able to move/ run he can find receivers in different ways.
Minshew/
J.
D. Ridder/ well, he was a starter so maybe they can coach 'em up.
TP2/ can play WR and emergency QB. he wasn't a bad QB its' just he came to a bad situation in Oakland and for some reason, only Hue/ Al felt he was good enough to play QB.
R. Tannehill/ not the best QB when he was younger but he wins. maybe a nice contract would get him to play a few years for us. a game manager but again, he was a winner for Tennessee.
C. Rush/ I think he's a good QB but I think Dallas will keep him.
M. Stafford/ if the Raiders wanted to take a chance on a veteran/ older QB he is 1 of the guys I would go after. they could give him 2 years and try to make a playoff run.
J. Fields/ if they could get him for a fair price/ trade then maybe they could give him a 2-3 contract and try to coach 'em up.
T. Lawrence/ oh yea!, but not for a 1st rounder how about a 2nd, 3rd and 7th '25 and a 5th in '26?
D. Carr/ he for a 5th rounder to the Saints? he would be a nice game manager for us.
S. Rattler/ a fair trade a 4th or 5th rounder for him. coach 'em up and let him prove himself see if he can be a starter for us! he has some of the old NFL QBs/ old Raiders' QBs' boldness, taking big chances and wildness in his game.
Matt Barkley/ a decent QB he might be a good starter for us.
"Well NY, if we [had] Mariota- just good enough to get us to a winning record, maybe not the playoffs but more wins"
First, I assume you mean next year because the trade deadline has passed.
But there it is in black and white... the playoffs don't matter to you, which explains why your player assessments are so off and why decades of losing doesn't bother you.
Your bar is low.
FYI, Mariota lost his starting job in 2018. The Falcons thought like you and started him in 2022, then he got benched. So I wonder what part of "if Mariota was a starter, he'd be a starter" don't you understand. You keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with that one.
Mariota is not the Raiders' savior.
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